Podcast
How Universities Like Auburn Help Defend the Nation
Season 3 Episode 29 •Show Notes
National security challenges increasingly cut across technology, economic competitiveness, critical infrastructure, manufacturing and workforce development. Universities have a growing role to play not only in conducting research, but also in translating ideas into practical solutions and preparing students to confront real-world problems.
Auburn University President Dr. Chris Roberts, McCrary Institute Chairman Lt. Gen. (Ret) Ron Burgess, Senior Vice President for Research Dr. Steve Taylor and Samuel Ginn College of Engineering Dean Dr. Mario Eden join Frank Cilluffo to discuss Auburn’s commitment to national security. The conversation explores the changing threat environment, the university’s expanding research presence in Huntsville, partnerships among academia, government and industry, and how experiential education can prepare students for jobs and technologies that do not yet exist.
Main Topics
- The changing national security landscape
- The convergence of security, technology and economic threats
- Building security into emerging technologies
- Auburn’s national security mission
- The value of interdisciplinary research
- Auburn’s expanding presence in Huntsville
- Universities as trusted government and industry partners
- Experiential learning for national security careers
- Preparing engineers for an AI-driven workforce
Key Quotes
“We’re starting to see national security, economic security – it’s all becoming intertwined and inseparable.” — Frank Cilluffo
“The largest fraction of our research at Auburn University is national security related. And that’s not an accident. It’s a commitment.” — Dr. Chris Roberts
“We’re still putting band-aids on [the internet] to make it work. And so that’s where we find ourselves. AI is so new. Let’s get the foundation set like it needs to be up front, in terms of its security… so that we’re not having to band-aid it in 10 years.— Lt. Gen. (Ret) Ron Burgess
“We’re not selling a product. We’re here to educate our students and use our faculty and researchers to solve some tough problems.” — Dr. Steve Taylor
“We’re not a diploma factory. I always tell our students that if the only thing that defines them when they graduate is their GPA, then we have failed.”— Dr. Mario Eden
Relevant Links and Resources
Auburn University’s Cyber Education Programs
About the Guests
Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Ron Burgess is chairman of the McCrary Institute Advisory Board and former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency. During a 38-year Army career, he also served as acting principal deputy director of national intelligence and held senior intelligence roles with the Joint Chiefs of Staff and U.S. Southern Command.
Dr. Chris Roberts is the 21st president of Auburn University, leading the university’s academic, research, extension and public-service missions. An accomplished engineering scholar, he previously served for a decade as dean of Auburn’s Samuel Ginn College of Engineering.
Dr. Steve Taylor is Auburn University’s senior vice president for research and economic development. He previously served as interim dean and associate dean for research in the Samuel Ginn College of Engineering, where he helped expand research funding and establish major applied research institutes and facilities.
Dr. Mario Eden is dean of Auburn University’s Samuel Ginn College of Engineering and the Joe T. and Billie Carole McMillan Professor. A longtime Auburn faculty member and former chair of chemical engineering, his research focuses on process systems engineering, simulation, design and optimization.
Transcript
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:00:00]: The largest fraction of our research at Auburn University is national security related. And that’s not an accident. It’s a commitment.
Frank Cilluffo [00:00:10]: Welcome to Cyber Focus from the McCrary Institute, where we explore the people and ideas shaping and defending our digital world. I’m your host, Frank Cilluffo, and you’re in for a real treat today. I say that not just because all my bosses are going to be in the room, but rather it is a significant set of issues. Auburn University’s leadership is joining us today, starting with General Ron Burgess, who is chairman of the McCrary Institute, followed by none other than the President of Auburn University, Dr. Chris Roberts, followed by Dr. Steve Taylor, Senior Vice President for Research at Auburn University, and last and certainly not least, Dean of the College of Engineering, Dr. Mario Eden.
Frank Cilluffo [00:00:53]: Hope to have a discussion that is far reaching, but also one that underscores the importance that universities are continuing and increasingly playing in not only research or technology or building the workforce, but rather much of the DNA that makes up our national security community. So, gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us today.
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:01:15]: My pleasure.
Ron Burgess [00:01:16]: Thanks for having us.
Frank Cilluffo [00:01:17]: General, I thought I’d start with you, and you’ve had a distinguished career as the Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, Deputy Director of National Intelligence. What has changed in those many years that you were in the hot seat when you were early in your career versus where we are today?
Ron Burgess [00:01:39]: Frank, I think if I think back from the time of those jobs you described to where we find ourselves now, first and foremost would be the move to what I call, what is referred to as great power competition. I mean, we moved away from focusing on places like Russia and China, and we focused on the terrorism threat to the United States. And so that’s now shifted. We’ve now moved. I think also another area would be the advances that have been made on technology. Things that we’ve been talking about such as AI, artificial intelligence, and what some of those things do, quantum computing, what that means in the encryption world and all that other. And I think the other one that I would mention, just for purposes of this would be a move toward domestic terrorism from a national security standpoint for the United States. I would put those three avenues as things that have moved since my time.
Frank Cilluffo [00:02:50]: And making sure we calibrate and are consistently recalibrating to the threat, right?
Ron Burgess [00:02:55]: Always. Always.
Frank Cilluffo [00:02:55]: And that’s a moving target.
Ron Burgess [00:02:57]: Because the enemy gets a vote.
Frank Cilluffo [00:02:58]: Absolutely. Well said. You know, one of the other concepts that I see changing, and disagree if you think the premise is wrong, but threats we used to look at in isolation and challenges as a country, those that comprise national power, they’re all converging really fast. So you can’t look at one issue in isolation of another. Would you agree with that premise?
Ron Burgess [00:03:26]: Absolutely, I would agree. So I think everyone generally goes down the path of saying that we live in a more interconnected world. Intertwined is a word you used in the question, but I mean, the world has become more interconnected. One of the analogies that I use is computer code traveling on fiber optic cable. If that 1 or 0 can travel the globe in 53 milliseconds, that really is moving at the speed of light, in terms of things. I put it in context for people saying a blink of an eye is somewhere around 50 or 75 milliseconds. So think about how fast all that’s occurring.
Ron Burgess [00:04:09]: But yes, the world has become more interconnected, and so from a national security standpoint, we used to use a mnemonic device called DIME to think about what are the levers of national power that need to be used. So that would be diplomatic, informational, military, and economic. And that’s grown over the years. But while those levers, if you will, might have been able to be used independently, now you’re trying to figure out gradations of using all of those elements of national power simultaneously and then thinking about the second and third and fourth order effects.
Frank Cilluffo [00:04:49]: You know, and that’s a great point. And it’s one of the challenges we’re dealing with right now when it comes to artificial intelligence. We have no choice but to compete. I mean, we can’t be left behind. That’s not an option. But at the same time, it’s bringing about a whole new host of security challenges. And right now, that’s actually playing out in real time.
Ron Burgess [00:05:12]: It is playing out in real time. We used to describe, so people may or may not know. So the Internet, the Internet was made by the US Government, but it was what I used to refer to as the friendly sharing information enclave for the US Government, primarily on the national security side. Well, it was so good that other entities wanted to become part of that, and so you were strapping them on. Well, to make sure that it stayed safe and secure, we were putting bandaids.
Ron Burgess [00:05:51]: We’re still putting band aids on it to make it work. And so that’s where we find ourselves. AI is so new. Let’s get the foundation set like it needs to be up front in terms of its security and what we want to do so that we’re not having to band aid it in 10 years from now.
Frank Cilluffo [00:06:14]: Well said. Well said. I like to say we built it on quicksand, but it was never intended to do what it was intended.
Ron Burgess [00:06:20]: Correct.
Frank Cilluffo [00:06:21]: What it’s actually done. One last question, and then I’m going to pivot to President Roberts, and I’m curious about the, you know, one of the hardest challenges, and you’ve been in both the DNI role, looking across the intelligence community at Defense Intelligence Agency, that plays an essential role in providing intelligence to the operators in theater and beyond. Signal to noise, that is a big, it’s a historic challenge. I mean, knowing what matters, that’s on steroids now, is it not?
Ron Burgess [00:06:56]: I think I would agree with you. We always used to discuss, we get a lot of intelligence and a lot of information. The truly good intelligence professional is able to separate the wheat from the chaff. And what is the golden nugget inside all of that information that you’re getting in terms of it. And so good news is we’re building tools that help with some of that. But that signal to noise ratio that you’re talking about is clearly a concern and is only getting bigger in terms of it because of what we see out there and what’s happening, whether it be in social media or in really hard targets that we’re trying to access in terms of what we’re getting. But, you know, I still, you mentioned that I came from the ODNI. One of the reasons the ODNI was established not only based on the 9/11 Commission, which were coming up on the anniversary of 9/11, which a lot of us recognize, but the WMD Commission. Both of those commissions recognized that information sharing across the US Government was not what it needed to be.
Ron Burgess [00:08:18]: I can sit here and say that we have made progress, I applaud the progress we have made, but we still have a ways to go and always will.
Frank Cilluffo [00:08:31]: Well said. General, thank you so much. And I think you framed it perfectly. We’re starting to see national security, economic security, it’s all becoming intertwined and inseparable. And that raises, I think, an important set of questions. And the role of universities.
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:08:48]: That’s right.
Frank Cilluffo [00:08:49]: And President Roberts, I mean, for transparency, I’m at Auburn because of you and because of General Burgess. And the reality is Auburn, I can say this, is 100% committed to national security. But I want to hear from the President. So what are your thoughts in terms of what role universities can and should play and Auburn’s commitment?
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:09:10]: Well, first, I’d just like to thank you for having me here today.
Frank Cilluffo [00:09:13]: Oh, are you kidding me?
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:09:14]: And it’s an honor to be here with Ron, for sure. You know, think about it for a second, what an opportunity it was for us when Ron Burgess decides to retire from his military service and he comes, brings that expertise to Auburn University, and he brings the real world with him. And we all learned a great bit about cyber. And so, Ron, it’s a pleasure to be here with you on this today because you and I were both on the ground floor of the creation of this McCrary Institute. And Frank, we want you to know we’re really pleased to host the McCrary Institute at Auburn. And so, you know, what can we do to help with national security? You know, it’s in our DNA at Auburn. If you look back at the formation of Auburn University as a land grant institution, you know, over 150 years ago, the first three programs that were established under that umbrella at Auburn were our agriculture programs, of course, mechanical arts, which today we refer to as engineering, and military science.
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:10:16]: Military science was an integral part of what we did at Auburn University. You don’t have to go too far at Auburn to figure out how important national security and love of our country is. If you read the Auburn Creed, and I encourage anybody who’s not familiar with Auburn to do so. It’s an amazing document and a gift left to us that was written in 1943 in the heart of what was taking place in the world at that time with World War II. And it’s a document that speaks to a set of values that we share at Auburn University. And there’s a line in there that speaks to love of country because it is our home. And so I think it’s an absolutely integral part of Auburn. And I suspect that’s the case for a lot of land grant institutions as well.
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:10:59]: We’re proud to be a land grant institution. If you look at our seal of the university, it talks about instruction, research and extension. And I like to think about that extension as part of our responsibility. Part of our mission is to translate the knowledge that we generate, the graduates that we produce, talent that we’re putting in the American workforce, and having those folks reach into our communities and make a difference, make an impact. And all of that is for naught if we don’t have security and opportunity for this democracy to thrive. And so we want our students on our campus to understand that and spill out into the communities that we serve. They do that by taking on real world experiences, and the experiences that you’re providing students through the McCrary Institute, through your Edge lab, through the contracts and grants that we’re taking on that are real world and marrying up the policy work that you’re undertaking, the application work and the technological solutions that we’re providing, I can’t think of a better role for a university to play in providing help with our national security. And it’s not lost on me that the largest fraction of our research, which I think you’ll hear about from Dr. Taylor here in just a little while, the largest fraction of our research at Auburn University is national security related.
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:12:25]: And that’s not an accident, it’s a commitment.
Frank Cilluffo [00:12:28]: Dr. Roberts, thank you for the privilege to be able to help support some of that mission through the institute. And that’s, that’s genuine. And Auburn, the service mission has always been incredibly strong from its land grant roots through today. And some of the work we’re doing is not only hopefully advancing the ball at the national level, but very much so in the great state of ours.
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:12:54]: Yeah, I love the work you’re doing throughout the state and providing, you know, cyber education, cyber services, frankly, for our state, for our state government and local municipalities. Again, I think it just really speaks to undertaking our work in the spirit of the land grant mission.
Frank Cilluffo [00:13:14]: And you know, I like to say, and you can disagree with me, but, which I hope you don’t, but we’re not just a land grant. We’re actually a land, air, sea, space and cyber grant university now. It cuts across everything. And I do think that that’s a testament to first, the mission matters.
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:13:35]: Yeah, I think it also speaks to the interdisciplinarity with which we undertake our research. The fact of the matter is the world you live in is the intersection of a lot of different disciplines. And on our campus we understand that the interesting solutions that we can provide to our world’s problems are going to occur at the interfaces of disciplines. The type of collaboration that comes about on a campus like ours makes that pretty seamless. I could not be more proud of our faculty and their ability to collaborate at the interfaces of interesting problems, where you’re bringing people in healthcare professions together with cyber experts or advanced manufacturing folks together with professors of economics or sociology or those types of things. That’s where the interesting stuff happens.
Frank Cilluffo [00:14:25]: At the edges or where they diverge, right?
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:14:27]: Exactly.
Frank Cilluffo [00:14:28]: Sometimes where they diverge.
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:14:29]: Exactly right.
Frank Cilluffo [00:14:30]: General, you wanted to jump in.
Ron Burgess [00:14:31]: I was going to jump in. As the president was just talking, as you laid it out, you know, Frank, I would be disingenuous if I didn’t say, you know, being an Auburn grad, I bleed orange and blue. But when I came back to the university and I had an opportunity then to observe the commitment to those things that we’re talking about on the national security side and love of country as he referred to the Auburn creed, from the board of trustees to the administration, to the faculty and everyone that works, to include then the student population, that commitment is evident across all parts of Auburn University.
Frank Cilluffo [00:15:24]: You know, President Roberts, when you meet with leaders in Washington, as you do very regularly, and you’re in D.C. today, what’s the one thing you hope they better understand about Auburn and universities generally and the role they can play here?
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:15:43]: Yeah, you know, I think what I hope they understand is that we’re an institution that really is trying to be of substance. We’re trying to have our work really translate into public good, and that we’re trying to be practical about it. Again, referring to the Auburn creed, it begins with this is a practical world and therefore I can only count on what I earn.
Frank Cilluffo [00:16:09]: Think with your brain and hands too.
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:16:10]: That’s right. And so we wish to have the work that we undertake really be of substance and make a difference to the communities that we serve. And I think when they understand how genuine we are about that, how serious we are about that, then I believe opportunities follow. It’s not a secret anymore. We’ve really worked hard to build the brand of Auburn University and to get that reputation out. And you know, for instance, Frank, this year, just to speak about our undergraduate programs for a minute, we had 66,000 applications for 6,100 spots. It’s incredible the demand that there is for an Auburn education. And I believe that’s because it’s a values based institution.
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:16:58]: It’s a practical institution in terms of our approach to translating our work to public good. And we focus on the whole of the person, the whole of the experience. We talk about an exceptional student experience and I’d put ours against any in the nation.
Frank Cilluffo [00:17:15]: Exceedingly well said. And in addition to exceptional, it’s experiential. They’re learning by doing. And that to me is in large part the future of education, right?
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:17:23]: Yeah, the experiences I’m talking about, the experiences I’m talking about aren’t a nice water slide at the pool though. We have those types of things on campus. I’m talking about real world opportunities for our students to test their wares, to leave the comfortable confines of campus periodically and engage in the real world with their expertise and then come back to campus all the more curious about how they’re going to use that skill set to make a difference.
Frank Cilluffo [00:17:52]: Gentlemen, thank you so much. Let’s turn now to how that mission comes to life through research, innovation, partnerships with Drs. Taylor and Eden. Thank you, gentlemen.
Dr. Chris Roberts [00:18:03]: Awesome. That’s great.
Ron Burgess [00:18:04]: Frank, thank you very much.
Frank Cilluffo [00:18:06]: I’m now joined by Dr. Steve Taylor, senior Vice President for Research at Auburn University, and Dr. Mario Eden, dean of the Samuel Ginn College of Engineering at Auburn University. And what we’ll do here is take some of these big concepts from a mission set down to reality and how Auburn is making a difference. And you know, we are not simply, of course, education is primary and tantamount and always will be, but a lot of our students are focused on real world problems in real time. And Steve, I thought I’d like to start with you. How is Auburn as a research enterprise standing up to meet that challenge?
Steve Taylor [00:18:50]: Sure. It’s interesting, Dr. Roberts earlier kind of gave you a little bit of history of Auburn as a land grant institution. And it was really, the land grant institutions were stood up by legislation to focus on agriculture and the industrialization of the United States. How do we move the country forward? That was 164 years ago. Auburn is still doing that. Auburn’s been doing it all along.
Steve Taylor [00:19:20]: Today, I would say we’ve doubled down on that. We’re focused on teaching the students those necessary skills, the technology, the fundamentals that they need to move our country forward. And then our research programs also are focused on that. How do we apply the talents, the knowledge of our faculty and researchers to solve some really tough problems for our country today? And some of those are fundamental research issues that may take a while to see the results of it. And then others are very much applied on the higher technology readiness level end of the scale, where we’re solving real problems today that make a difference in our economy and our national security.
Frank Cilluffo [00:20:02]: And I’d love to build on that because President Roberts did bring it up in terms of percentage of some of our research around national security matters. Anything you’d like to share there?
Steve Taylor [00:20:13]: Sure. Traditionally, the funding that comes to Auburn, that supports our research programs, external funding that comes, most of that is federal funding like most other land grant institutions, and of that federal funding, traditionally we have two large components of that. There’s an agriculture, natural resources, forestry, environment component, and then really the other one that’s a little bit larger today is a national security component. That’s Department of War, Department of Homeland Security, Department of Energy, other agencies in there that really focus on tough national security challenges today.
Frank Cilluffo [00:20:49]: And one area, physically we see that vision coming to light is in Huntsville. Anything you’d like to share in terms of the vision and what we’re doing there.
Steve Taylor [00:21:02]: Sure, sure. There’s a lot of activity in Huntsville today. A few years ago we made an investment in Huntsville. We’ve had offices there, our College of Engineering, we’ve had offices there for about 15 years now. But a few years ago we made a decision to really have a significant physical presence in Huntsville. And that’s really to meet the needs of our government partners at Redstone Arsenal and surrounding, there are many government agencies there. NASA Marshall, Missile Defense Agency, Space and Missile Defense Command.
Steve Taylor [00:21:35]: Today Space Command is there. So Auburn Made, made a concerted, you know, effort to, to invest heavily in Huntsville. And so we’re now, we just opened a new lab building, a new 50,000 square foot laboratory building to complement our previous facility. So we have about 100,000 square feet in Huntsville. About 35 research engineers there today focused on some really tough problems. And, and they are really the bridge between those tough problems in the government in the Redstone Arsenal environment and other sectors. They’re focused on applied research, cyber issues related to space, missile defense, and then they’re the conduit back to campus also. They’re connecting those research problems with our faculty and students on campus.
Frank Cilluffo [00:22:26]: Very well said. And you mentioned sort of the bridge between government, industry, where does academia fit in, where maybe government alone can’t do it or industry alone can’t do it? What do you see that partnership looking like, especially when it’s on all cylinders?
Steve Taylor [00:22:43]: I think partner is a key word to take away from that. And I would say trusted partner. The university can be a trust, serve that role as a trusted partner. We’re not selling a product. We’re here to educate our students and use our faculty and researchers to solve some tough problems. So we can become a trusted partner, convene both industry and government to come together to solve some of those problems. But we can be that trusted partner to test, to validate new technology.
Frank Cilluffo [00:23:14]: And we’re doing that, right?
Steve Taylor [00:23:15]: We’re doing that. We’re doing that. In fact, we’re building, in our new lab building in Huntsville, we’re building a radiation hardening testing facility for electronic hardware that flies in space. And so that will focus on high energy proton testing of electronics that flies in space. That’s a critical national testing need that we actually have a deficit of testing capability in the United States to validate hardware that we’re going to put in space to make sure it will survive the natural radiation environment in space. So again, we’re going to serve that trusted partner role to be able to test and validate, but also help new small companies develop new technology and validate it in our environment so that then they can deploy it for a national security apparatus.
Frank Cilluffo [00:24:01]: And that is essential, I think, because small companies are now the biggest companies in terms of Anthropic, ChatGPT, OpenAI, these were thoughts a few years ago and look where they are today. So, and to be able to have a group that can actually think about security before it’s too late is important. If you’re a foreign intelligence service, it’s not just stealing government secrets, it’s stealing secrets from these small companies that one day are very, very big companies. So I think that’s a really important mission. Last question before we jump into a discussion with Dr. Eden. You know, when you look at research opportunities, we wish we had blank checkbooks, but we don’t.
Frank Cilluffo [00:24:51]: So how do you go about prioritizing what some of those investments are? And I think clearly Auburn has made a priority to invest in national security, but I don’t want to put words in your mouth. But you’ve done yeoman’s work, Steve, in terms of getting us to where we are. But how do you go about those hard decisions?
Steve Taylor [00:25:11]: I think today, certainly for the last 10 or so years that president Roberts and I have worked together, we’ve tended to focus on those problem sets that we can see the direct tie to. How does this improve our quality of life? How does this help us grow our economy? Today we’re asking questions, how does this help us reshore manufacturing, grow new manufacturing enterprises, strengthen our defense industrial base? And then that ultimate question, how does this help us strengthen our national security? So those are the questions that are driving a lot of our decisions on where we invest our resources. And then look at, you know, research programs on campus that, again, some of them may be fundamental and you don’t know the immediate application, but you can see, yeah, 25 years from now, 50 years from now, this could be really important. So we try to look at those, and then again, look at those that are higher TRL levels. Which ones really have the ability to make an impact quickly and move us forward? And I would say the other one, again, we’re talking with Dr. Eden, College of Engineering in particular, but which ones of those also have an immediate, direct, logical tie that can bring our students into that research enterprise?
Steve Taylor [00:26:30]: So many of our students today come to Auburn, even as a freshman, you know, at Camp War Eagle, our orientation session, we have parents and students ask, hey, can my student do research? Can my son or daughter get involved in research? Well, yes, we’ll do that, but all of this research, again, we want to do in the spirit of both undergraduate and graduate education. How can we bring those students into this? It’s a workforce development thing that provides professionals to go into the national security enterprise and other sectors of our economy.
Frank Cilluffo [00:27:02]: Steve, you couldn’t have segued or set that up any better than you just did. And Mario, I mean, you do, we talk about, and genuinely more than talk about, believe in the student centered environment at Auburn University and, and research breakthroughs lead to new opportunities for tomorrow’s workforce.
Mario Eden [00:27:27]: Absolutely.
Frank Cilluffo [00:27:28]: And I’d be curious, how do we translate that in, in some ways or others and, and what makes it kind of unique?
Mario Eden [00:27:36]: I think it’s the, the multifaceted approach that we take. Dr. Taylor, you know, you know, touched on students that are interested in getting involved with research. That’s one of the high impact experiences that we, you know, focus on making available to our students. The ones that are not considering a research career or graduate school, but want to go, you know, as President Roberts said, apply their trade and their wares and industry, we want to make sure that they have those experiential learning opportunities through co-op and internships so they can really pinpoint where it is that they want to make their contribution. Because we focus very much on making sure that we provide that individualized guidance to each student to get them to really realize their potential. We’re not a diploma factory.
Mario Eden [00:28:27]: You know, I always tell our students that if the only thing that defines them when they graduate is their GPA, then we have failed. We want to really focus on providing that holistic experience and that helps both the students in terms of what they should be doing in the classroom, but also what they should be doing outside of the classroom. That’s a big part of the Auburn experience. And we want to make sure that we lean into the generation of students that we currently have are different than the prior generation. You know, the students today really want to change the world and they want to make sure that the work they’re doing has impact. And we have an opportunity and a responsibility to lean into that, to make sure they understand why they’re doing what they’re doing, what the impact is. As a land grant school, as Dr. Taylor and Dr. Roberts said, we want to do work that improves people’s lives, help drive our economy and keeps our nation safe. And we have a cohort of students at the moment, a generation of kids that are really, really looking to have that kind of impact. And we need to make sure that we lean into that and harness that.
Frank Cilluffo [00:29:35]: Really well said. Most students I speak to want to see how they can make a difference. They want to work on things that matter.
Mario Eden [00:29:44]: Things that matter.
Frank Cilluffo [00:29:45]: And things that are beyond self. And you can only get so much of that in the classroom, which I don’t want to take away from. That’s essential. You need the core, but the rest of it you get by doing to a large extent. And when I think about cyber now, whether it’s critical infrastructure, artificial intelligence, advanced manufacturing, national security, how do you find that pathway where someone wants to be sort of the diverge or converge individual?
Mario Eden [00:30:20]: We’ve been very fortunate. We have a lot of really, really committed partners both on campus and off campus. We’ve had really, really outstanding collaborations where students can either go get those experiences at a corporate site, you know, through co-op and internship. We’ve had some really, really interesting and innovative opportunities where they can do them on campus. One of them is through the McCrary Institute at the Edge lab where they’re doing real live cyber protection, cyber assessment. They’re on campus, but they are still, you know, getting that internship level experience. Similarly-
Frank Cilluffo [00:30:58]: We couldn’t do it without them. Just in the, for what it’s worth.
Mario Eden [00:31:01]: Yeah. And we have a, a similar project with Boeing where we have students working on, literally design work for Boeing, but they’re doing it while they’re on campus. So it provides that flexibility. And we’re really cognizant of making sure that we want to make sure all these students have these high impact experiences. But traveling to Fort Worth, Texas to do something with Lockheed Martin may not work for every single student, but bringing them that experience on campus as well assures that every single student in our college gets those high impact experiences. And that’s what we want to do.
Frank Cilluffo [00:31:37]: Well said. And AI is changing engineering. Advanced manufacturing is changing engineering. Cybersecurity is changing engineering. How do we prepare the student of tomorrow for jobs that don’t even exist right now?
Mario Eden [00:31:53]: I think for one is to make sure that we’re, we’re focused on fundamental tools and concepts rather than, you know, platforms that are, you know, that, that have a very short lifespan. We want to be agnostic to certain platforms and focus on the general guidelines and guardrails of technology. And I think what we do, the field is evolving just as fast as what we’re seeing, new technologies coming online, that we’re doing interdisciplinary capstone design projects where students from different disciplines get to work on a real representative, real world problem that can’t be solved by one discipline by itself. And so I think that’s where we have the opportunity to get them connected to that evolving world. But each engineering discipline at their core still have a set of fundamental physical characteristics that none of the tools that you mentioned are going to change. They’re just going to be applied differently. And so we focus on making sure that that, that foundational set of tools are still sound and strong.
Mario Eden [00:33:09]: That way they can be applied to whatever new challenges comes our way because that’s really critical. We’re not gonna put new degrees in place on a five year rotational basis because of where the market’s moving at that moment, because that is really not sustainable. What’s really important is that those fundamental skills and technology foundations are still there and they can be applied in all kinds of different ways.
Frank Cilluffo [00:33:36]: You know, even from a national security standpoint, it was often not who invented technology first, it’s in how it was applied from gunpowder to AI today. So that’s, that’s, that, that’s very well said. Sort of a closing question for both of you. Ten years from now, what would you like to see in terms of what Auburn has contributed to US national security, innovation, economic competitiveness or service?
Steve Taylor [00:34:13]: I’ll start, I’ll go back to my term, that trusted partner. I think we’re viewed as that now in a lot of circles, but I would hope that, you know, across the nation, particularly our government partners would look at Auburn as that trusted partner, that that’s the place you can go. We’re going to trust what they do, they’re going to help us validate new technology. You know, that, to be seen as that nationally as that trusted partner, as an innovator, somebody who innovates at Auburn but also nurtures other companies around us, other startups that can develop new technology and, and then you know, again, an institution that, that clearly makes a difference in bringing, again, reshoring manufacturing, bringing manufacturing back to our region, our country, strengthening, strengthening our industrial, our defense industrial base. Yeah, somebody that’s known for that.
Frank Cilluffo [00:35:09]: What’s old is new, what’s new is old, because you’re absolutely right on the reshoring. I, I think that that is essential, and trust is the coin of the realm, as Mark Twain said, and takes a while to build. We got to make sure we’re always continuing to build that because you can lose it quickly. So very well said. Mario, thoughts?
Mario Eden [00:35:32]: Following on on what Dr. Taylor said, I would like to see us in 10 years having further reaffirmed our commitment and reputation of providing high quality, you know, job ready, and in my case, engineers to the American workforce that are ready to contribute on day one. Whether it’s from an R and D perspective or from a manufacturing perspective. We’re going to need that as we’re reshoring manufacturing, reshoring technology. And the fear that we’re seeing right now from some folks regarding AI replacing engineers actually should be embraced as an opportunity because it will elevate the job functions and the level of synthesis and problem definition that our engineers are going to be expected to focus on way beyond what they start out with now. So I’m excited about what this will do for our students because they will be asked to actually attack bigger problems earlier and they’re going to be able to leave some of the more pedestrian things behind because that can be solved very effectively with AI. But the synthesis and the judgment of what problem to solve in the first place will still require a good engineer. And so that’s what we have to focus on, making sure we continue to provide.
Frank Cilluffo [00:36:59]: Thoughtful answer. We recently had the Estonian ambassador to the United States, who’s now ambassador to NATO. He made the exact same argument at a K through 12 in Estonia. Change is uncomfortable, but it’s the only thing that’s consistent, and we want to harness it and harness it for good. Gentlemen, thank you both for joining us today. Thank you for what you do every day and, and your commitment to our country, to our students and to our prosperity. So thank you.
Steve Taylor [00:37:30]: Thank you.
Mario Eden [00:37:31]: Thanks for having us.
Steve Taylor [00:37:31]: War Eagle.
Frank Cilluffo [00:37:32]: War Eagle. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Cyber Focus. If you liked what you heard, please consider subscribing. Your ratings and reviews help us reach more listeners. Drop us a line if you have any ideas in terms of topics, themes or individuals you’d like for us to host. Until next time, stay safe, stay informed, and stay curious.
