Agentic AI, the Future of CISA and International Cyber Strategy: Key Takeaways from RSAC 2025

Show Notes

Recorded on May 1, 2025, at the RSA Conference in San Francisco, this special Cyber Focus episode brings together government, industry, and policy leaders for an insider look at the key takeaways from the biggest cybersecurity event of the year.
Frank Cilluffo sits down with David Colberg, a longtime RSA leader and architect of the conference’s policy programming, to discuss how RSAC is shaping global cyber dialogue. Then a panel of McCrary Institute Senior Fellows — Katherine Hennessey, Matt Hayden, Alison King, and Bob Kolasky — joins the conversation to reflect on major themes, from agentic AI and offensive cyber to global cooperation and the CISA reorganization. Designed for Washington’s cyber policy community, this episode delivers a timely snapshot of the conversations driving national and international cybersecurity strategy.

Main Topics Covered

• Rising government and policy engagement at RSAC, anchored by the International Cybersecurity Forum
• Secretary Noem’s keynote and the evolving vision for CISA under the new administration
• Agentic AI’s role in shaping both cybersecurity and broader national security operations
• International collaboration, including Australia’s regional outreach and GCHQ’s first public keynote
• Offensive cyber strategy, red lines, and the Volt Typhoon threat from China
• Scaling cyber defense through DARPA’s AI Cyber Challenge and emerging automation tools
• Workforce, collaboration, and renewed focus on federal cybersecurity priorities

Key Quotes

“We want government folks to be part of that community and to come out and speak and have opportunities to have valuable conversations which drive action.” — David Colberg
“Cybersecurity is national security against what could be an existential threat from China.” — Bob Kolasky
“We heard references that you’re going to start onboarding [AI] bots in the same way you would employees. CISOs better get good on their AI bot HR.” — Matt Hayden
“The way we look at the data and how we use [AI and] the data to solve our cybersecurity challenges, but also our other physical world challenges, I think is a really fascinating place to be.” — Katherine Hennessey
“I always think of AI… as augmented intelligence. It’s a tool that has to be used responsibly, and you have to have ethics attached to it.” — Alison King
“Technology, whatever it is, it will change. Human nature doesn’t. And if we’re going to defeat the bad guys… it takes networks to defeat [them].” — Frank Cilluffo

Relevant Links and Resources

• RSA Conference: https://www.rsaconference.com
• DARPA AI Cyber Challenge (AIxCC): https://aicyberchallenge.com
• Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA): https://www.cisa.gov
• McCrary Institute for Cyber and Critical Infrastructure Security: https://mccraryinstitute.com

Guest Bios

David Colberg is an advisor to RSA and has led the development of the conference’s government and policy programming for over a decade. He helped launch the International Cybersecurity Forum at RSAC and plays a key role in building connections between public and private sector leaders.
Katherine Hennessey, Matt Hayden, Alison King, and Bob Kolasky are Senior Fellows at the McCrary Institute, each bringing deep expertise from across government and industry in cyber strategy, national security, and public-private collaboration.

Transcript

1
00:00:00,160 –> 00:00:04,072
Matt Hayden: We heard references that you’re going to start to onboard bots in

2
00:00:04,096 –> 00:00:07,928
Matt Hayden: the same way you would. Employees and CISOs better get

3
00:00:07,984 –> 00:00:11,704
Matt Hayden: good on their AI bot HR, you know, and so it was supposed. And then

4
00:00:11,712 –> 00:00:14,380
Katherine Hennessey: to authorize them like you do authorize employees.

5
00:00:16,080 –> 00:00:19,912
Frank Cilluffo: Welcome to CyberFocus from the McCrary Institute, where we explore the

6
00:00:19,936 –> 00:00:23,800
Frank Cilluffo: people and ideas shaping and defending our digital world.

7
00:00:23,920 –> 00:00:27,880
Frank Cilluffo: I’m your host, Frank Cilluffo. And today we’re on set for a special edition

8
00:00:27,960 –> 00:00:31,232
Frank Cilluffo: of looking at an amazing week for RSA and RSAC

9
00:00:31,296 –> 00:00:34,832
Frank Cilluffo: 2025. And I have one of the, one of the movers and

10
00:00:34,856 –> 00:00:38,624
Frank Cilluffo: shakers for the entire policy program here with us today, Dave

11
00:00:38,672 –> 00:00:42,672
Frank Cilluffo: Colberg. Dave is a longtime friend and Dave, I thought we’d start

12
00:00:42,696 –> 00:00:46,208
Frank Cilluffo: with maybe you giving a sense of your role within

13
00:00:46,264 –> 00:00:50,256
Frank Cilluffo: RSA and then how the week, your expectations and how the week went. Yeah,

14
00:00:50,288 –> 00:00:54,272
David Colberg: absolutely. And thanks for having me, Frank. Privilege to have you. Appreciate the

15
00:00:54,296 –> 00:00:58,256
David Colberg: opportunity. It’s been a busy week. I think we’re really safe here right now

16
00:00:58,328 –> 00:01:02,172
David Colberg: because everybody’s making a mad d the airport, so it’s a

17
00:01:02,196 –> 00:01:05,548
David Colberg: good time to do it. But yeah, so I, I started working with

18
00:01:05,604 –> 00:01:09,516
David Colberg: RSA 13 years ago and I actually worked for the company

19
00:01:09,588 –> 00:01:13,532
David Colberg: RSA initially. And so they had reached out to me 13 years

20
00:01:13,556 –> 00:01:16,636
David Colberg: ago and said, hey, we, we want to have more government and policy

21
00:01:16,708 –> 00:01:20,556
David Colberg: experts have a presence at the conference, you know, deliver the message

22
00:01:20,588 –> 00:01:24,556
David Colberg: on behalf of the government. So that’s where it all began. Fast

23
00:01:24,588 –> 00:01:28,512
David Colberg: forward 13 years. That’s exactly what I’m doing this year. It’s kind of an advisory

24
00:01:28,576 –> 00:01:31,808
David Colberg: role, just making sure that the conference is inviting the right

25
00:01:31,864 –> 00:01:35,696
David Colberg: speakers, you know, and giving them a platform to deliver their message, whatever

26
00:01:35,728 –> 00:01:39,680
David Colberg: that is. Exactly. So, you know, they’re just to kind of double click on that.

27
00:01:39,720 –> 00:01:43,600
David Colberg: There’s some components of the conference that I focus on. One, as

28
00:01:43,640 –> 00:01:47,392
David Colberg: you know, is the International Cybersecurity Forum, which takes place at the beginning of the

29
00:01:47,416 –> 00:01:51,376
David Colberg: week. You know, it includes 40 or so countries and their top

30
00:01:51,448 –> 00:01:55,360
David Colberg: cyber officials. Whether it’s on the diplomatic side or the operational side.

31
00:01:55,400 –> 00:01:58,828
David Colberg: We bring them together in a closed door session with the US

32
00:01:58,884 –> 00:02:02,812
David Colberg: delegation, attract 1.5. Right, right. Absolutely.

33
00:02:02,876 –> 00:02:06,828
Frank Cilluffo: Powerful. Yeah, very similar to that. So we started

34
00:02:06,884 –> 00:02:10,540
David Colberg: the week with, with that form. I think it was hugely successful.

35
00:02:10,700 –> 00:02:14,316
David Colberg: We’ve grown it every year and we have no shortage of countries

36
00:02:14,388 –> 00:02:18,220
David Colberg: asking to participate. So I think that was a valuable opportunity for

37
00:02:18,260 –> 00:02:21,804
David Colberg: the new administration to be exposed to that, to that form. And then when you

38
00:02:21,812 –> 00:02:25,438
David Colberg: get to the main conference, it’s really focused on, you know, who are we having

39
00:02:25,494 –> 00:02:28,890
David Colberg: keynote? Right. The more senior cabinet level officials,

40
00:02:29,750 –> 00:02:33,582
David Colberg: some of the leaders in the cyber field and government, and then we have

41
00:02:33,606 –> 00:02:37,502
David Colberg: track sessions. But I think, you know, what

42
00:02:37,526 –> 00:02:41,198
David Colberg: I’d like to mention is one of the most important opportunities, I think, for government

43
00:02:41,254 –> 00:02:44,942
David Colberg: folks who attend the conference is what happens on the margins of the conference.

44
00:02:45,006 –> 00:02:48,942
David Colberg: Absolutely right. And the opportunities to sit down with. CEOs one

45
00:02:48,966 –> 00:02:52,890
Frank Cilluffo: on one with 50,000 of their best friends. 50,000 of their best friends.

46
00:02:53,670 –> 00:02:57,050
David Colberg: So we also facilitate some informal rounds tables and other

47
00:02:57,090 –> 00:03:00,490
David Colberg: opportunities for government folks to hear directly

48
00:03:00,570 –> 00:03:04,202
David Colberg: from, from our audience. So it’s grown

49
00:03:04,266 –> 00:03:08,202
Frank Cilluffo: dramatically. I mean, every year maybe I’m getting older, but

50
00:03:08,226 –> 00:03:12,170
Frank Cilluffo: it feels like it’s grown and grown and grown. Yeah, it really has. And especially

51
00:03:12,290 –> 00:03:16,154
David Colberg: when it comes to government participation, it’s grown

52
00:03:16,202 –> 00:03:19,910
David Colberg: every year. In addition to icf, any, any

53
00:03:20,850 –> 00:03:24,634
Frank Cilluffo: keynotes and, or sessions you’d like to footstep? Yeah, absolutely.

54
00:03:24,682 –> 00:03:28,380
David Colberg: And I’ll just say, you know, the timing of the

55
00:03:28,420 –> 00:03:32,348
David Colberg: conference often makes it difficult during an election year to get

56
00:03:32,404 –> 00:03:36,172
David Colberg: a lot of the typical folks that people are used to seeing. Right. So there

57
00:03:36,196 –> 00:03:39,564
David Colberg: are still some folks that have yet to be confirmed that aren’t, you know, on.

58
00:03:39,652 –> 00:03:43,548
Frank Cilluffo: Still attending. It shows you how important absolute conference it is. Yeah, absolutely. They’re

59
00:03:43,564 –> 00:03:47,324
David Colberg: still attending. But I think the highlight of this year was Secretary of

60
00:03:47,332 –> 00:03:51,116
David Colberg: Homeland Security. Right. Secretary Noem came out,

61
00:03:51,188 –> 00:03:54,964
David Colberg: she keynoted, she met with CEOs, spent a lot of

62
00:03:54,972 –> 00:03:58,932
David Colberg: valuable time, I think, delivering her message, demystifying

63
00:03:58,996 –> 00:04:02,756
David Colberg: some of the actions of the new administration. Cisa. Right. What’s happening around CISA

64
00:04:02,788 –> 00:04:06,660
David Colberg: Reorg and you know, how do they plan to empower industry

65
00:04:06,780 –> 00:04:10,676
David Colberg: to be more of an active participant in defending

66
00:04:10,708 –> 00:04:14,276
David Colberg: the ecosystem. So some of those conversations were really valuable.

67
00:04:14,388 –> 00:04:18,374
Frank Cilluffo: Deputy Secretary as well. Right. The Deputy Secretary came as well, Troy

68
00:04:18,422 –> 00:04:22,290
David Colberg: Edgar, and he was fantastic. You know, got to meet a lot of industry leaders.

69
00:04:22,910 –> 00:04:26,726
David Colberg: You know, we hosted him at the international forum and then also,

70
00:04:26,798 –> 00:04:30,422
David Colberg: you know, some of the subject matter experts. I just finished watching a

71
00:04:30,446 –> 00:04:34,422
David Colberg: keynote with Alexei Boulizel, the Senior Director for Cyber

72
00:04:34,486 –> 00:04:38,006
David Colberg: at the National Security Council, and that was fascinating. It’s the first time we’ve

73
00:04:38,038 –> 00:04:41,926
David Colberg: had him out to the conference to do a keynote

74
00:04:41,958 –> 00:04:45,750
David Colberg: and that was hugely successful. And a lot of obviously

75
00:04:45,830 –> 00:04:49,818
Frank Cilluffo: industry leadership as well as international leadership, both in the,

76
00:04:49,854 –> 00:04:53,778
Frank Cilluffo: the quiet behind the scenes sessions and in that and also

77
00:04:53,834 –> 00:04:57,490
Frank Cilluffo: in the very public session. So going into this

78
00:04:57,530 –> 00:05:01,362
Frank Cilluffo: year, vis a vis where we are and thank you so much for

79
00:05:01,386 –> 00:05:05,378
Frank Cilluffo: spending some time with us. You must be. I’m dead tired. You must be Times

80
00:05:05,434 –> 00:05:09,298
Frank Cilluffo: two. So, yeah, no, it’s been a busy week, but a valuable week.

81
00:05:09,354 –> 00:05:13,202
Frank Cilluffo: What were your thoughts going in vis a vis where we are? You hit

82
00:05:13,226 –> 00:05:16,710
Frank Cilluffo: all your hopes. Yeah, absolutely.

83
00:05:17,210 –> 00:05:20,882
David Colberg: You know, and it’s. You never really know how the week’s going to end

84
00:05:20,906 –> 00:05:24,834
David Colberg: up, but it always ends up working out. Right. So because you have good people,

85
00:05:24,922 –> 00:05:28,802
David Colberg: we have good people. We have a phenomenal team behind the

86
00:05:28,826 –> 00:05:32,578
David Colberg: scenes, kind of making sure everything comes off without hitch.

87
00:05:32,674 –> 00:05:36,402
David Colberg: And so the week, I think, went really well.

88
00:05:36,586 –> 00:05:40,386
Frank Cilluffo: Any themes that sort of raised above

89
00:05:40,418 –> 00:05:44,002
Frank Cilluffo: the bar for you? Yeah, and I think, I think coming in, a lot of

90
00:05:44,026 –> 00:05:47,602
David Colberg: folks wanted to hear from the new administration. You know, it’s a big deal.

91
00:05:47,706 –> 00:05:51,614
David Colberg: Somebody who, you know, can deliver that message kind of where, where is

92
00:05:51,622 –> 00:05:55,422
David Colberg: their focus going to be? You know, people hear about the CISA reorgan, what does

93
00:05:55,446 –> 00:05:59,342
David Colberg: that mean for working with industry? And so some of the underlying

94
00:05:59,406 –> 00:06:02,702
David Colberg: themes, you know, I’d say top of mind is

95
00:06:02,726 –> 00:06:06,622
David Colberg: AI. Right. How are we using this technology? Better say

96
00:06:06,646 –> 00:06:10,478
Frank Cilluffo: agentix. I think I heard a lot of. That, but I think,

97
00:06:10,534 –> 00:06:14,270
David Colberg: you know, it’s not just AI, but how are we

98
00:06:14,310 –> 00:06:17,924
David Colberg: using AI to make unsophisticated defenders

99
00:06:17,972 –> 00:06:21,844
David Colberg: sophisticated? Absolutely right. And that was one of the underlying themes of,

100
00:06:21,932 –> 00:06:25,380
David Colberg: of one of the keynotes that just took place. You know, I think

101
00:06:25,420 –> 00:06:28,852
David Colberg: another, another theme that came out of some of the government sessions

102
00:06:28,916 –> 00:06:32,916
David Colberg: were empowering industry. Right. Government

103
00:06:32,988 –> 00:06:36,132
David Colberg: is not going to be there to, to tell you what to do and where

104
00:06:36,156 –> 00:06:40,068
David Colberg: to go every, you know, every day, in and out.

105
00:06:40,124 –> 00:06:44,004
David Colberg: But how is the new administration going to empower industry to

106
00:06:44,012 –> 00:06:47,992
David Colberg: be a more active participant? And FBI had a very big pressence

107
00:06:48,156 –> 00:06:51,792
Frank Cilluffo: this year. They did, they did. FBI always has. Yep.

108
00:06:51,936 –> 00:06:55,808
Frank Cilluffo: And others. Hey, Dave, looking ahead to 20. Oh, please.

109
00:06:55,864 –> 00:06:59,184
David Colberg: No, I just wanted to mention what, you know, and the international component of the

110
00:06:59,192 –> 00:07:03,072
David Colberg: conference is so important. Yeah. Is. So I think two things I want to hit

111
00:07:03,096 –> 00:07:06,800
David Colberg: on there. One is this is the first year we’ve had the director of GCHQ

112
00:07:06,880 –> 00:07:10,736
David Colberg: boom, speak at the conference. She was fantastic. I’ve been here before, but not speaking

113
00:07:10,768 –> 00:07:14,160
Frank Cilluffo: at the. Not speaking public, not speaking on the keynote.

114
00:07:14,240 –> 00:07:17,954
David Colberg: And, and so, you know, I think they had a good week

115
00:07:18,042 –> 00:07:21,922
David Colberg: as well from an international standpoint. And then another, another thing that

116
00:07:21,946 –> 00:07:25,682
David Colberg: we’ve noticed this year, and I want to give credit to

117
00:07:25,706 –> 00:07:29,602
David Colberg: Ambassador Brendan Dowling from Australia, because what Australia has done this

118
00:07:29,626 –> 00:07:33,074
David Colberg: year is they’ve actually reached out to some smaller countries in the Asia Pacific

119
00:07:33,122 –> 00:07:36,930
David Colberg: region and they’ve allowed them to come. To the conference on

120
00:07:36,970 –> 00:07:40,242
Frank Cilluffo: Australia’s down on their Nickel. Yeah, yeah. On their nickel. And I think that’s just

121
00:07:40,266 –> 00:07:43,802
David Colberg: a. A great example of the importance

122
00:07:43,866 –> 00:07:47,834
David Colberg: RSA has with the policy and government community. David, looking ahead

123
00:07:47,922 –> 00:07:51,690
Frank Cilluffo: to 2026, anything we should be thinking about? Well, the

124
00:07:51,730 –> 00:07:55,594
David Colberg: date change. Right. It’s conference. What is the date? You know, it’s going to be

125
00:07:55,602 –> 00:07:59,370
David Colberg: in March. Okay. It’s going to be a little earlier next year. So

126
00:07:59,410 –> 00:08:03,210
David Colberg: which, you know, we’ll meet that challenge. We’ll make sure we

127
00:08:03,250 –> 00:08:07,162
David Colberg: have, you know, the right folks out here. But, you

128
00:08:07,186 –> 00:08:11,082
David Colberg: know, I think another underlying theme I’d want to hit on, and this is

129
00:08:11,106 –> 00:08:15,034
David Colberg: just kind of from a philosophical standpoint, the conference is really a

130
00:08:15,042 –> 00:08:18,630
David Colberg: community. Right. And that’s how they treat everything.

131
00:08:19,250 –> 00:08:23,002
David Colberg: We want government folks to be part of that community and to come out and

132
00:08:23,026 –> 00:08:26,794
David Colberg: speak and have opportunities to have valuable conversations which drive

133
00:08:26,842 –> 00:08:30,762
David Colberg: action. Absolutely right. So we’re going to be more engaged, I think,

134
00:08:30,866 –> 00:08:34,733
David Colberg: you know, in between conferences, to make sure that we’re driving some of

135
00:08:34,741 –> 00:08:38,685
David Colberg: those conversations on behalf of the community. But. But yeah,

136
00:08:38,717 –> 00:08:42,461
David Colberg: all in all, just a great week, Dave. Hats off. You pulled it off again.

137
00:08:42,565 –> 00:08:46,269
Frank Cilluffo: It was an amazing couple of days, and I’m really glad you ended with that

138
00:08:46,309 –> 00:08:50,013
Frank Cilluffo: point, because that’s where I am. Technology, whatever it

139
00:08:50,021 –> 00:08:53,741
Frank Cilluffo: is, it will change. Human nature doesn’t. And if we’re going to

140
00:08:53,765 –> 00:08:57,661
Frank Cilluffo: defeat the bad guys, we got to play. It takes networks to defeat.

141
00:08:57,805 –> 00:09:01,501
Frank Cilluffo: And you have built one heck of a network. So thanks for your work this

142
00:09:01,525 –> 00:09:04,429
Frank Cilluffo: week. Thanks for your work for the past 13 years, and thanks for your work

143
00:09:04,469 –> 00:09:07,498
Frank Cilluffo: next year and hopefully you’ll you back on. Well, thanks to you, Frank. Appreciate it.

144
00:09:07,514 –> 00:09:11,434
Frank Cilluffo: Thanks. Keep rocking and rolling. We are now joined

145
00:09:11,482 –> 00:09:15,258
Frank Cilluffo: by a rockstar panel of our senior fellows, starting

146
00:09:15,274 –> 00:09:18,954
Frank Cilluffo: with Katherine Hennessy, Matt Hayden, Ally King, Bob

147
00:09:19,002 –> 00:09:22,922
Frank Cilluffo: Kolasky. I think they’ve all been on our podcast in the past,

148
00:09:23,026 –> 00:09:26,810
Frank Cilluffo: so I felt what we do here is get into a little more

149
00:09:26,850 –> 00:09:30,586
Frank Cilluffo: depth and. And sort of everyone’s big takeaways from the conference.

150
00:09:30,618 –> 00:09:34,562
Frank Cilluffo: Ally, you want to kick us off? Yeah, sure. So RSA is unique in

151
00:09:34,586 –> 00:09:38,402
Alison King: that I consider it to be five conferences in one.

152
00:09:38,586 –> 00:09:42,002
Alison King: You have kind of the glitterati that headlines it that

153
00:09:42,026 –> 00:09:45,682
Alison King: everybody’s trying to find a way to interact with. And then

154
00:09:45,706 –> 00:09:49,442
Alison King: underneath that, you have vc, private equity groups

155
00:09:49,586 –> 00:09:53,410
Alison King: shopping, and then a lot of business going on right there. Underneath that

156
00:09:53,450 –> 00:09:57,442
Alison King: layer, you have the vendor floor, which can be sensory overload. And then of

157
00:09:57,466 –> 00:10:01,202
Alison King: course, a lot of companies, their senior leadership uses it to

158
00:10:01,226 –> 00:10:05,186
Alison King: do maybe speed dating, maybe touch calls. Even within forescout,

159
00:10:05,218 –> 00:10:09,074
Alison King: we had 80 meetings teed up. And so that 80. Yeah, 80 meetings teed

160
00:10:09,122 –> 00:10:12,962
Alison King: up and many of those I was supporting my leadership on. And then underneath that,

161
00:10:12,986 –> 00:10:16,802
Alison King: where I really live is on the fringe. So a lot

162
00:10:16,826 –> 00:10:20,786
Alison King: of international folks come in. I am on the fringe. I’m

163
00:10:20,818 –> 00:10:23,874
Alison King: on the fringe. On the edge. On the edge. And so a lot of international

164
00:10:23,962 –> 00:10:27,702
Alison King: folks come in and Dave in the previous segment discussed

165
00:10:27,826 –> 00:10:31,518
Alison King: the community aspect of this and it definitely

166
00:10:31,614 –> 00:10:35,502
Alison King: provides an excellent opportunity to continue to build that connective tissue

167
00:10:35,566 –> 00:10:39,230
Alison King: with our partners and allies. And so I was really fortunate to be able

168
00:10:39,350 –> 00:10:43,230
Alison King: not only to attend many panels, many of them while

169
00:10:43,270 –> 00:10:46,814
Alison King: off the record, a lot of the themes still kind of permeated throughout.

170
00:10:46,942 –> 00:10:50,878
Alison King: And I’m really excited for everybody else to kind of, you know, provide their

171
00:10:51,014 –> 00:10:54,894
Alison King: perspectives on that piece. But continuing to ensure that we

172
00:10:54,902 –> 00:10:58,868
Alison King: can buy down risk systematically because cyber has no borders.

173
00:10:59,044 –> 00:11:02,004
Alison King: We have a lot of work ahead of us, but very excited to kind of

174
00:11:02,012 –> 00:11:05,972
Alison King: see where things go from here. Awesome. Matt. Yeah, it’s, it’s a good fun time

175
00:11:05,996 –> 00:11:09,444
Matt Hayden: for me because I get to play shopper just like the government does from the

176
00:11:09,452 –> 00:11:13,092
Matt Hayden: defense industrial based side. So we get to walk around and hit the floor, talk

177
00:11:13,116 –> 00:11:16,932
Matt Hayden: to a lot of vendors. I didn’t have 80 meetings. That’s, that’s a lot. But

178
00:11:16,956 –> 00:11:20,612
Matt Hayden: we did hit 12 from day to day. But the challenge we ran into was

179
00:11:20,716 –> 00:11:24,564
Matt Hayden: how do we forecast where we see some of these innovations really catching steam,

180
00:11:24,612 –> 00:11:28,604
Matt Hayden: really being implementable in a real way. And so those, those kind

181
00:11:28,612 –> 00:11:32,316
Matt Hayden: of get down to brass tacks with, with vendors to hey, what’s your slick sheet

182
00:11:32,348 –> 00:11:35,612
Matt Hayden: look like? What’s past that? Where are some use cases where you’re doing it and

183
00:11:35,636 –> 00:11:39,292
Matt Hayden: how can we play a, play a role in getting that expedited and use our

184
00:11:39,316 –> 00:11:43,260
Matt Hayden: know how to work from there. So there’s, it’s very much a work and play

185
00:11:43,300 –> 00:11:46,892
Matt Hayden: trip. But from the policy aspect, it’s really great to get a lot of work.

186
00:11:46,916 –> 00:11:50,812
Frank Cilluffo: Is play is it is in all sincerity. Yeah. So the policy circuit was

187
00:11:50,836 –> 00:11:54,652
Matt Hayden: fun. We enjoy hearing about where there’s a lot of

188
00:11:54,676 –> 00:11:58,310
Matt Hayden: alignment on, on some issues that, you know, you don’t really know where everybody is

189
00:11:58,350 –> 00:12:01,094
Matt Hayden: until you start hearing them all jump on one side of the fence or the

190
00:12:01,102 –> 00:12:04,774
Matt Hayden: other. Right. We got a lot more Cyrus. Yes. We didn’t have

191
00:12:04,782 –> 00:12:08,582
Matt Hayden: anybody speaking out against like since the 2015 or anything like that, so that was

192
00:12:08,606 –> 00:12:11,814
Matt Hayden: good. And now we get to go back to D.C. with all of our notes

193
00:12:11,862 –> 00:12:15,606
Matt Hayden: and make sure we’re ready to jump into next week. Awesome. Katherine.

194
00:12:15,718 –> 00:12:19,574
Frank Cilluffo: And I have to say Night Dragon puts on a conference within a

195
00:12:19,582 –> 00:12:23,334
Frank Cilluffo: conference with. It’s massive. So love RSA. Yeah,

196
00:12:23,382 –> 00:12:26,122
Katherine Hennessey: it’s, that’s, it’s kind of our thing. Well also one of the reasons we do

197
00:12:26,146 –> 00:12:29,882
Katherine Hennessey: that is because RSA is amazing. We’ve all been coming here

198
00:12:29,906 –> 00:12:33,594
Katherine Hennessey: for so many years, but it’s so big as we know and that’s part of

199
00:12:33,602 –> 00:12:36,282
Katherine Hennessey: the fun. We get to do a lot of fun things and there are so

200
00:12:36,306 –> 00:12:40,154
Katherine Hennessey: many established vendors that we’re, you know, we’ve worked with for years and

201
00:12:40,162 –> 00:12:44,026
Katherine Hennessey: we want to go to their things. But we, we Nightdragon

202
00:12:44,058 –> 00:12:47,610
Katherine Hennessey: especially and all the investors, I would think if I can speak for them, they

203
00:12:47,650 –> 00:12:50,530
Katherine Hennessey: do want to keep the focus on innovation when you know, we’re trying to get

204
00:12:50,570 –> 00:12:53,970
Katherine Hennessey: through the fun stuff and our friends that we already know that are selling products

205
00:12:54,010 –> 00:12:57,202
Katherine Hennessey: that are already on the market and pretty widely distributed, we want to get to

206
00:12:57,226 –> 00:13:01,202
Katherine Hennessey: the next thing. So our themes were very much where are the

207
00:13:01,226 –> 00:13:04,882
Katherine Hennessey: future threats, where are we headed? I mean agentic AI was

208
00:13:04,906 –> 00:13:08,642
Katherine Hennessey: the big question on everybody’s mind and how, you know, how

209
00:13:08,666 –> 00:13:12,642
Katherine Hennessey: it’s affecting cyber both on offense and defense. But I guess I would

210
00:13:12,666 –> 00:13:16,082
Katherine Hennessey: note something that’s very interesting is RSA seems to be

211
00:13:16,106 –> 00:13:20,034
Katherine Hennessey: attracting people who are, they’re security people but they’re

212
00:13:20,082 –> 00:13:23,534
Katherine Hennessey: trying to figure out how AI AI is going to serve them in other ways

213
00:13:23,582 –> 00:13:27,454
Katherine Hennessey: beyond cyber. We just hosted a meeting with our

214
00:13:27,622 –> 00:13:30,862
Katherine Hennessey: high powered camera analytics companies for CISOs

215
00:13:31,006 –> 00:13:34,702
Katherine Hennessey: because obviously it leverages AI in a way that

216
00:13:34,886 –> 00:13:38,638
Katherine Hennessey: no one’s using today and these guys, environments. So they’re coming to

217
00:13:38,694 –> 00:13:42,542
Katherine Hennessey: RSA to learn about something that I don’t really think about as

218
00:13:42,566 –> 00:13:46,050
Katherine Hennessey: a cyber issue. So I think that’s kind of an interesting twist.

219
00:13:46,800 –> 00:13:50,216
Katherine Hennessey: You know, we did a pitch day, we did a pitch competition at our summit

220
00:13:50,248 –> 00:13:53,432
Katherine Hennessey: which was a new addition, trying to keep it on some of the smaller guys

221
00:13:53,496 –> 00:13:57,256
Katherine Hennessey: even though they haven’t yet come up into maturity and are you know, sponsoring the,

222
00:13:57,328 –> 00:14:00,968
Katherine Hennessey: the cool concerts and things that’s, that’s always a priority here.

223
00:14:01,024 –> 00:14:04,856
Frank Cilluffo: So amazing week and, and, and hats off to Night Dragon because

224
00:14:04,928 –> 00:14:08,842
Frank Cilluffo: it, that is worth the price of entree in itself. So, Bob?

225
00:14:08,843 –> 00:14:12,312
Bob Kolasky: We’re still not sponsoring a cool party yet here at rsa, but we’ll get

226
00:14:12,336 –> 00:14:16,122
Bob Kolasky: there. You know, I do think this is a business conference first and

227
00:14:16,146 –> 00:14:20,042
Bob Kolasky: foremost and somebody’s come here a number of years mainly to policy world, but now

228
00:14:20,066 –> 00:14:24,010
Bob Kolasky: shifting to a business world, seeing the, just as Kath was talking about, seeing the

229
00:14:24,050 –> 00:14:27,962
Bob Kolasky: amount of energy around innovating and finding, doing deals and

230
00:14:27,986 –> 00:14:31,642
Bob Kolasky: that sort of Thing you know, we haven’t talked about the things we traditionally talk

231
00:14:31,666 –> 00:14:35,146
Bob Kolasky: about for income podcasts like this. Everyone seemed to love the phrase

232
00:14:35,178 –> 00:14:39,162
Bob Kolasky: cybersecurity is national security. This year, I don’t think it’s probably the first

233
00:14:39,186 –> 00:14:42,362
Bob Kolasky: time that phrase has ever been used, but you know, in a lot of different

234
00:14:42,386 –> 00:14:46,246
Bob Kolasky: ways. But in this, consistent. Yeah, but in this, this term

235
00:14:46,398 –> 00:14:49,974
Bob Kolasky: it was about Volt Typhoon and Salt Typhoon in China. Right. So

236
00:14:49,982 –> 00:14:53,782
Bob Kolasky: cybersecurity is national security against what could be an

237
00:14:53,806 –> 00:14:57,782
Bob Kolasky: existential threat from China. And I think that came through. I was thinking about

238
00:14:57,806 –> 00:15:01,570
Bob Kolasky: this last night. In terms of what you really have here

239
00:15:02,190 –> 00:15:06,102
Bob Kolasky: is this really powerful tool we’re going to have as a country if that

240
00:15:06,126 –> 00:15:09,366
Bob Kolasky: threat ever does manifest itself.

241
00:15:09,558 –> 00:15:13,462
Bob Kolasky: And the last thing I want is everyone to leave here and say I need

242
00:15:13,486 –> 00:15:17,434
Bob Kolasky: to dedicate all my resources to defending my networks against China. You have to be

243
00:15:17,442 –> 00:15:20,634
Bob Kolasky: aware of it. You should be taking that risk

244
00:15:20,722 –> 00:15:24,202
Bob Kolasky: seriously. And if we get to another level of

245
00:15:24,226 –> 00:15:27,514
Bob Kolasky: escalation, this is the great power of the community,

246
00:15:27,602 –> 00:15:31,338
Bob Kolasky: that the community will be activated for national security purposes,

247
00:15:31,434 –> 00:15:34,586
Bob Kolasky: the innovation will be activated for national security

248
00:15:34,658 –> 00:15:38,010
Bob Kolasky: purposes. And you get here and you have those

249
00:15:38,050 –> 00:15:42,026
Bob Kolasky: conversations and you build those relationships. We’re at a Point in D.C.

250
00:15:42,058 –> 00:15:46,026
Bob Kolasky: where some of the processes where the relationships have existed before those structures

251
00:15:46,058 –> 00:15:49,902
Bob Kolasky: are being torn down a little bit. The relationships still have to exist. And

252
00:15:50,006 –> 00:15:53,422
Frank Cilluffo: I might note the transparency to discuss

253
00:15:53,606 –> 00:15:57,470
Frank Cilluffo: offensive cyber was pretty amazing. I mean, five years

254
00:15:57,510 –> 00:16:01,230
Frank Cilluffo: ago that would not be on the tip of everyone’s tongue.

255
00:16:01,310 –> 00:16:05,262
Frank Cilluffo: And I think it was and in recognition that business as

256
00:16:05,286 –> 00:16:09,166
Frank Cilluffo: usual in itself will not cut it. And that came from the

257
00:16:09,238 –> 00:16:12,990
Bob Kolasky: just Gilmich the perception that what China has done through Volt Typhoon is

258
00:16:13,030 –> 00:16:16,320
Bob Kolasky: outside of cyber. Right? It was and

259
00:16:16,430 –> 00:16:20,252
Bob Kolasky: therefore issue. You know, I was today to Lexi from the

260
00:16:20,276 –> 00:16:23,980
Bob Kolasky: NSC’s Talk and you know this, he was the most senior White House

261
00:16:24,020 –> 00:16:27,772
Bob Kolasky: official who gave a talk and publicly, publicly and he

262
00:16:27,796 –> 00:16:31,500
Bob Kolasky: was talking about kind of that being one of the couple priorities

263
00:16:31,580 –> 00:16:35,564
Bob Kolasky: like let’s. Let’s take offensive cyber as something that exists in

264
00:16:35,572 –> 00:16:38,572
Bob Kolasky: our toolkit is not a bad word and we know how to use it and

265
00:16:38,596 –> 00:16:42,596
Bob Kolasky: we start to talk through the processes of which when we would deploy

266
00:16:42,628 –> 00:16:46,452
Bob Kolasky: and use it in the capability to have it. So, you know, that goes the

267
00:16:46,476 –> 00:16:49,732
Bob Kolasky: theme of a little more clarity from the administration of what their goals are in

268
00:16:49,756 –> 00:16:53,492
Bob Kolasky: cyber. So all of you have been in and

269
00:16:53,516 –> 00:16:57,252
Frank Cilluffo: around CISA for a long time and you did have the

270
00:16:57,276 –> 00:17:01,188
Frank Cilluffo: secretary. I think the last secretary from DHS was Tom Ridge sitting

271
00:17:01,204 –> 00:17:04,836
Frank Cilluffo: in that role. They’ve all spoken afterwards. But that’s a

272
00:17:04,988 –> 00:17:08,937
Frank Cilluffo: pretty powerful testament in itself anything that

273
00:17:09,043 –> 00:17:12,829
Frank Cilluffo: leapt out from any of you in terms of Secretary Noem’s thoughts.

274
00:17:12,909 –> 00:17:16,461
Matt Hayden: The good news is we’re, we’re now hearing that CISA has an

275
00:17:16,485 –> 00:17:20,365
Matt Hayden: intrinsic value and a mission to play and that. That that is

276
00:17:20,437 –> 00:17:23,933
Frank Cilluffo: not being abandoned. It is not being abandoned. It is not being put on the

277
00:17:23,941 –> 00:17:27,629
Matt Hayden: shelf. It is going to be operationalized in a way that’s going to

278
00:17:27,669 –> 00:17:31,645
Matt Hayden: amplify its original mission and core roles. And they’re gonna,

279
00:17:31,677 –> 00:17:35,107
Matt Hayden: they’re gonna make sure that is where they’re, I’m listening for the word

280
00:17:35,253 –> 00:17:39,192
Matt Hayden: modernization to come out any minute now. So instead of just saying do it a

281
00:17:39,216 –> 00:17:43,064
Matt Hayden: different way, look at it from a modernization angle because there are new tools

282
00:17:43,112 –> 00:17:46,472
Matt Hayden: in the toolbox they can use that. Yes,

283
00:17:46,536 –> 00:17:50,376
Matt Hayden: headcounts are a challenge, but that can help with that. And so

284
00:17:50,448 –> 00:17:54,216
Matt Hayden: we’re looking to see how they take on some of these newer approaches. And also

285
00:17:54,288 –> 00:17:57,540
Alison King: too really grateful for the opportunity that

286
00:17:58,080 –> 00:18:01,176
Alison King: RSA folks were able to tee up for

287
00:18:01,328 –> 00:18:05,320
Alison King: roundtable with the Secretary and I think I

288
00:18:05,360 –> 00:18:08,740
Alison King: counted 18 CES. And while we can’t go into all the

289
00:18:08,780 –> 00:18:12,532
Alison King: specifics, she is looking to leverage the talent and the

290
00:18:12,556 –> 00:18:15,720
Alison King: resources and the sense of like patriotism

291
00:18:16,140 –> 00:18:19,780
Alison King: moving forward. So I’m excited to see how that

292
00:18:19,820 –> 00:18:23,668
Alison King: gets woven in into the strategy and the weeks and months

293
00:18:23,724 –> 00:18:27,652
Alison King: to follow because that’s certainly something that’s to Bob’s point is going

294
00:18:27,676 –> 00:18:31,492
Alison King: to put us in a position to build resiliency because while

295
00:18:31,596 –> 00:18:35,524
Alison King: it’s great that the administration wants to reinvigorate some of

296
00:18:35,532 –> 00:18:39,412
Alison King: the offensive capabilities that we have, that is a line of effort that’s part of

297
00:18:39,436 –> 00:18:43,236
Alison King: a larger strategy because through the pre positioning that’s already

298
00:18:43,308 –> 00:18:47,268
Alison King: happened on our critical infrastructure and other places, we need to be in a position

299
00:18:47,324 –> 00:18:51,236
Alison King: where you can respond a lot faster. And again, the fact that you had,

300
00:18:51,308 –> 00:18:54,612
Frank Cilluffo: and we discussed this briefly with David, but the fact that you had

301
00:18:54,716 –> 00:18:58,692
Frank Cilluffo: nominees who haven’t been confirmed yet, also taking the

302
00:18:58,716 –> 00:19:02,708
Frank Cilluffo: time to listen and have some off the record sessions, whether it’s the National

303
00:19:02,764 –> 00:19:06,320
Frank Cilluffo: Cyber Director, whether it’s Undersecretary for Management, you name it,

304
00:19:06,990 –> 00:19:10,470
Frank Cilluffo: that says something that this is the place to be

305
00:19:10,510 –> 00:19:14,294
Frank Cilluffo: for cisa. Yeah. Can I jump in on cisa just because I feel like

306
00:19:14,302 –> 00:19:18,086
Bob Kolasky: I should say there was a little bit of trying to,

307
00:19:18,158 –> 00:19:21,254
Bob Kolasky: and I don’t want to defend the CISA that I was part of, but I

308
00:19:21,262 –> 00:19:24,614
Bob Kolasky: was very proud to be part of that cisa, Edmund. And I am proud of

309
00:19:24,622 –> 00:19:27,622
Bob Kolasky: the work we did there. There’s a little bit of picking on CIS and said

310
00:19:27,646 –> 00:19:30,374
Bob Kolasky: it, but false equivalency of what CISA used to be. And somehow it’s going to

311
00:19:30,382 –> 00:19:34,358
Bob Kolasky: be dramatically different. The reality is the priorities that the secretary laid

312
00:19:34,374 –> 00:19:37,912
Bob Kolasky: out for CISA are pretty damn consistent. Sorry, consist.

313
00:19:37,976 –> 00:19:41,816
Bob Kolasky: Consistency, pretty consistent with the priority. It’s fine to reprioritize

314
00:19:41,848 –> 00:19:45,592
Bob Kolasky: that. And if we’re going to focus on cyber operations with cisa, great. The

315
00:19:45,616 –> 00:19:48,792
Bob Kolasky: next step is to rebuild the trust of the

316
00:19:48,816 –> 00:19:52,760
Bob Kolasky: workforce in the new leadership. Getting Sean Planky in there

317
00:19:52,800 –> 00:19:56,696
Bob Kolasky: at the job and having Sean as a leader of people on behalf

318
00:19:56,728 –> 00:19:59,992
Bob Kolasky: of the agency is going to be really important. Shawn couldn’t talk at RSA because

319
00:20:00,016 –> 00:20:02,872
Bob Kolasky: of where he is in the nomination process, but that’s going to be a key

320
00:20:02,896 –> 00:20:06,848
Bob Kolasky: element here. So while it’s a good start to say

321
00:20:06,984 –> 00:20:09,984
Bob Kolasky: we’ve got a vision for what CISA is, that vision has to be pushed to

322
00:20:09,992 –> 00:20:13,536
Bob Kolasky: the workforce and it has to be pushed to the partnership. Couldn’t agree more, Kathy.

323
00:20:13,568 –> 00:20:16,192
Katherine Hennessey: Yeah, just. I think it was important to have a handoff and that’s what they

324
00:20:16,216 –> 00:20:19,232
Katherine Hennessey: did, you know, I mean, even if they couldn’t fully be, you know, in their

325
00:20:19,256 –> 00:20:22,992
Katherine Hennessey: official capacity, I think this community needed a handoff and that we got

326
00:20:23,016 –> 00:20:26,576
Katherine Hennessey: it. So I think we’re ready to start as soon as everybody’s in their roles.

327
00:20:26,688 –> 00:20:30,592
Frank Cilluffo: Awesome. And just one of the things we were listening for was are

328
00:20:30,616 –> 00:20:34,544
Matt Hayden: there going to be themes that carry over from past admin to future admin?

329
00:20:34,632 –> 00:20:38,554
Matt Hayden: And we heard things like circiation, heard things like Secure by design. So

330
00:20:38,562 –> 00:20:42,522
Matt Hayden: there may be some, some new, this administration spin on

331
00:20:42,546 –> 00:20:46,170
Matt Hayden: those, but they weren’t bad words. They were programs of

332
00:20:46,210 –> 00:20:50,074
Matt Hayden: interest, programs of value and things that are going to carry forward. And the

333
00:20:50,082 –> 00:20:53,690
Frank Cilluffo: whole Alphabet soup was out in full force as well. FBI,

334
00:20:53,770 –> 00:20:55,910
Frank Cilluffo: oncd, Secret Service,

335
00:20:57,650 –> 00:21:01,562
Frank Cilluffo: they were all here. And so I agree,

336
00:21:01,666 –> 00:21:05,482
Frank Cilluffo: I’m not even questioning right, wrong and different. But the fact is there’s some clarity

337
00:21:05,546 –> 00:21:09,306
Frank Cilluffo: in terms of that. I would also add, I think there’s room for a refocus

338
00:21:09,338 –> 00:21:12,586
Katherine Hennessey: on federal cyber, and I think that was clear too. So I think that’s okay.

339
00:21:12,618 –> 00:21:15,802
Katherine Hennessey: I mean, you know, it’s not that it wasn’t a focus before, but I think

340
00:21:15,826 –> 00:21:19,722
Katherine Hennessey: it deserves renewed attention. And we have new tools, which I’m sure

341
00:21:19,746 –> 00:21:22,794
Katherine Hennessey: we’re about to talk about, new ways of thinking about things that are going to

342
00:21:22,802 –> 00:21:26,634
Katherine Hennessey: be important to how we secure federal networks. Absolutely. And I might note,

343
00:21:26,682 –> 00:21:30,410
Frank Cilluffo: Bob, to your point on the workforce, on our panel, we had some

344
00:21:30,450 –> 00:21:34,114
Frank Cilluffo: congressional leaders speak as well. Both,

345
00:21:34,162 –> 00:21:37,970
Frank Cilluffo: both Both from majority and minority and the majority actually footstep.

346
00:21:38,050 –> 00:21:41,762
Frank Cilluffo: Biggest priority for Chairman Green is the workforce which is

347
00:21:41,786 –> 00:21:45,266
Frank Cilluffo: consistent and Maura talked about the importance of

348
00:21:45,338 –> 00:21:49,282
Frank Cilluffo: sltt. So I do think we’re seeing maybe a some

349
00:21:49,306 –> 00:21:53,010
Frank Cilluffo: of the emphasis being put to

350
00:21:53,050 –> 00:21:57,010
Frank Cilluffo: state, local and industry. Yeah,

351
00:21:57,090 –> 00:22:01,058
Bob Kolasky: it’s always been a goal here to try to get the community of cyber

352
00:22:01,154 –> 00:22:05,114
Bob Kolasky: defenders that are here to be motivated to work on behalf of

353
00:22:05,122 –> 00:22:09,066
Bob Kolasky: the public interest. And the government has done that. And so that’s what it’s important

354
00:22:09,138 –> 00:22:12,810
Bob Kolasky: for the government to come put a face on what it is that the government

355
00:22:12,850 –> 00:22:16,698
Bob Kolasky: does in cybersecurity and good opportunity and then to

356
00:22:16,754 –> 00:22:19,946
Bob Kolasky: again to allow for regular communications

357
00:22:20,138 –> 00:22:24,010
Bob Kolasky: across industry. So I

358
00:22:24,050 –> 00:22:27,626
Frank Cilluffo: brought it up earlier about offense. I think there was

359
00:22:27,698 –> 00:22:31,642
Frank Cilluffo: also some recognition and this may be my pet rock,

360
00:22:31,706 –> 00:22:35,398
Frank Cilluffo: so forgive me, but I think there’s some discussion around, around red

361
00:22:35,454 –> 00:22:39,430
Frank Cilluffo: lines or lines in the silicon which Volt Typhoon in my

362
00:22:39,470 –> 00:22:42,210
Frank Cilluffo: eyes clearly crossed a red line.

363
00:22:43,230 –> 00:22:46,982
Frank Cilluffo: That to me I wasn’t expecting that to be part of the discussion

364
00:22:47,046 –> 00:22:50,050
Frank Cilluffo: in, in so many panels. Any thoughts on that?

365
00:22:50,750 –> 00:22:53,510
Matt Hayden: Well, I mean I’ll jump in. The, the challenge that we’ve seen in the past

366
00:22:53,550 –> 00:22:57,030
Matt Hayden: is that every incident had be handled as a one

367
00:22:57,070 –> 00:23:00,918
Matt Hayden: off and so you would have the diplomatic pressures

368
00:23:01,014 –> 00:23:04,912
Matt Hayden: and the diplomatic conversations that went through all the, the, the smartest people

369
00:23:04,936 –> 00:23:08,880
Matt Hayden: in government on how to respond was in a vacuum as if it didn’t happen

370
00:23:08,920 –> 00:23:12,640
Matt Hayden: the day before and won’t happen tomorrow. And so what we’re starting to hear is

371
00:23:12,680 –> 00:23:16,320
Matt Hayden: that they’re going to look at it as a compendium of events and

372
00:23:16,360 –> 00:23:20,352
Matt Hayden: escalate as appropriate to include offensive efforts as

373
00:23:20,376 –> 00:23:24,368
Matt Hayden: well as others. So you’re seeing it in the trade space now. We’re

374
00:23:24,384 –> 00:23:28,240
Matt Hayden: likely to start to see that in the national security defense space as these

375
00:23:28,280 –> 00:23:32,042
Matt Hayden: things escalate with future events. I think there was a lot of us

376
00:23:32,066 –> 00:23:35,946
Matt Hayden: listening to say are you going to count Volt Typhoon as something that’s happened

377
00:23:35,978 –> 00:23:39,722
Matt Hayden: and demands something now? We didn’t hear a

378
00:23:39,746 –> 00:23:42,682
Matt Hayden: bright line on that. That’s something that we’re listening for.

379
00:23:42,786 –> 00:23:46,570
Frank Cilluffo: Absolutely. So buzzword agentic AI.

380
00:23:46,650 –> 00:23:50,314
Frank Cilluffo: You brought it up early, Katherine. Anyone want to define

381
00:23:50,362 –> 00:23:54,282
Frank Cilluffo: that? Maybe it’s me, maybe I’m slow. So. But I think many of our

382
00:23:54,306 –> 00:23:56,760
Frank Cilluffo: viewers and listeners would appreciate a

383
00:23:57,540 –> 00:24:00,972
Frank Cilluffo: definition. I’ve been falling back on the word agentic which

384
00:24:00,996 –> 00:24:04,812
Bob Kolasky: means comes from agent and agency. Right. And I heard a talk today from

385
00:24:04,836 –> 00:24:08,636
Bob Kolasky: somebody from Gartner that I thought was very good and he was a little dismissive

386
00:24:08,668 –> 00:24:12,280
Bob Kolasky: of where agentic AI is. Right. On quadrant right now.

387
00:24:13,460 –> 00:24:17,020
Matt Hayden: I hope so. He called

388
00:24:17,060 –> 00:24:21,052
Bob Kolasky: Agentic AI baby bots with chat interfaces. That’s where the state of the

389
00:24:21,076 –> 00:24:24,896
Bob Kolasky: technology is. But that’s just a moment in time. It’s not going to be there

390
00:24:24,968 –> 00:24:28,640
Bob Kolasky: later. So it’s agency. It is the

391
00:24:28,680 –> 00:24:32,496
Bob Kolasky: AI system having the agency to make decisions based on information that

392
00:24:32,568 –> 00:24:36,336
Bob Kolasky: is collected to work at a quicker speed. And you can see why that

393
00:24:36,408 –> 00:24:39,936
Bob Kolasky: can be very useful in cyber defense. That you’re

394
00:24:39,968 –> 00:24:43,888
Bob Kolasky: empowering the system to do things that you’ve trained people

395
00:24:43,944 –> 00:24:47,824
Bob Kolasky: to do, but is pretty rote. And so the system will do it

396
00:24:47,832 –> 00:24:50,904
Bob Kolasky: a lot quicker at scale with cost efficiency and

397
00:24:50,912 –> 00:24:54,440
Bob Kolasky: effectiveness, where that all leads well

398
00:24:54,480 –> 00:24:58,360
Bob Kolasky: and we’ll be talking about that next year. The reason why it’s different

399
00:24:58,400 –> 00:25:02,360
Matt Hayden: is we had AI platforms last year. Why did Gentex next year

400
00:25:02,400 –> 00:25:06,248
Frank Cilluffo: is the next? And you had systems that could find

401
00:25:06,304 –> 00:25:09,736
Matt Hayden: patterns, systems that could do amazing scale,

402
00:25:09,848 –> 00:25:13,592
Matt Hayden: but they were individualized services and

403
00:25:13,616 –> 00:25:17,510
Matt Hayden: efforts. Where the strengths of Agentic comes in is that you

404
00:25:17,550 –> 00:25:20,918
Matt Hayden: actually have the ability to have collaboration

405
00:25:21,094 –> 00:25:25,094
Matt Hayden: amongst these products independent of anything else. And you

406
00:25:25,102 –> 00:25:28,610
Matt Hayden: have the ability for them to reach out into a toolbox and bring other

407
00:25:28,990 –> 00:25:32,582
Matt Hayden: AI services in to bear and to scale and to

408
00:25:32,606 –> 00:25:36,410
Matt Hayden: replicate. We heard references that you’re going to start to onboard

409
00:25:37,150 –> 00:25:39,690
Matt Hayden: bots in the same way you would employees.

410
00:25:40,750 –> 00:25:44,626
Matt Hayden: CISOs better get good on their AI bot HR, you know,

411
00:25:44,698 –> 00:25:48,514
Matt Hayden: it was. And then to authorize them like you. Do authorize employees rights

412
00:25:48,602 –> 00:25:52,514
Matt Hayden: and RBAC and all of the. All the above. And so we’re going to

413
00:25:52,522 –> 00:25:56,322
Matt Hayden: start to see people learning and listening from this. But especially in the

414
00:25:56,346 –> 00:25:59,730
Matt Hayden: federal cyberspace, it’s not going to be an

415
00:25:59,770 –> 00:26:03,442
Matt Hayden: immediate injection or crutch on the way we’re providing

416
00:26:03,506 –> 00:26:07,490
Matt Hayden: services across the departments and agencies probably for the next 12

417
00:26:07,530 –> 00:26:10,902
Matt Hayden: months. And in those 12 months though, they’re going to have to get up to

418
00:26:10,926 –> 00:26:14,886
Matt Hayden: speed the CISOs across the board, so they know that their architecture supports these types

419
00:26:14,918 –> 00:26:18,850
Matt Hayden: of operations, that their future roadmaps include

420
00:26:19,230 –> 00:26:23,030
Matt Hayden: building in these capabilities as they get new features and new

421
00:26:23,070 –> 00:26:26,982
Matt Hayden: sets. And they’re going to take those privacy concerns with them so that

422
00:26:27,006 –> 00:26:29,974
Matt Hayden: they have their AI policies structured to allow

423
00:26:30,142 –> 00:26:33,942
Matt Hayden: multiple operational AI bots and beyond.

424
00:26:34,006 –> 00:26:37,440
Frank Cilluffo: Sort of the national security community focused on sort of

425
00:26:37,480 –> 00:26:41,328
Frank Cilluffo: exquisite mean sources and all the light. I see this having

426
00:26:41,384 –> 00:26:44,928
Frank Cilluffo: value also though for the DMVs, the TSA, things that all

427
00:26:44,984 –> 00:26:48,928
Frank Cilluffo: Americans rely on U.S. postal Service. Any thoughts

428
00:26:48,944 –> 00:26:52,528
Frank Cilluffo: on that, Kaepern? Yeah, I mean, I think my thoughts are that

429
00:26:52,664 –> 00:26:56,336
Katherine Hennessey: agentic AI allows us to, I mean, this

430
00:26:56,408 –> 00:27:00,352
Katherine Hennessey: potential everywhere. But in how we use data, how we collect it, how

431
00:27:00,376 –> 00:27:04,240
Katherine Hennessey: we warehouse it, how we search it and how we synthesize it. And

432
00:27:04,280 –> 00:27:07,340
Katherine Hennessey: so this is a problem everybody has been trying to solve in other, other areas

433
00:27:07,380 –> 00:27:11,036
Katherine Hennessey: of national security. And now we’re approaching them kind of the same way. So we’re

434
00:27:11,068 –> 00:27:14,956
Katherine Hennessey: seeing this. Everyone overuses the word fusion, but it really

435
00:27:15,028 –> 00:27:18,380
Katherine Hennessey: is, I mean, it’s kind of like these data lakes and then how we use

436
00:27:18,420 –> 00:27:21,800
Katherine Hennessey: them and how AI lets us use them in a really smart way

437
00:27:22,900 –> 00:27:26,812
Katherine Hennessey: is exactly how we’ve been sort of envisioning a joint information

438
00:27:26,916 –> 00:27:30,492
Katherine Hennessey: environment. So these conversations, we’re not going to have these

439
00:27:30,516 –> 00:27:34,238
Katherine Hennessey: conversations about cyber without having them about real world national

440
00:27:34,294 –> 00:27:38,286
Katherine Hennessey: security challenges. And we think about like we’re talking about the tactical edge

441
00:27:38,318 –> 00:27:41,870
Katherine Hennessey: and JADC2 and how we’re, you know, cyber

442
00:27:41,950 –> 00:27:44,974
Katherine Hennessey: suddenly cyber. And the way we look at the data and how we use the

443
00:27:44,982 –> 00:27:48,958
Katherine Hennessey: data to solve our cybersecurity challenges, but also our other other

444
00:27:49,014 –> 00:27:52,654
Katherine Hennessey: physical world challenges, I think is a really fascinating place to

445
00:27:52,662 –> 00:27:55,502
Katherine Hennessey: be. And I mean we have to remember that these are going to be the

446
00:27:55,526 –> 00:27:59,502
Katherine Hennessey: foundation of some of these huge sweeping goals of the new administration. You

447
00:27:59,526 –> 00:28:03,390
Katherine Hennessey: know, that people have been not here as much, but they’re starting to understand here

448
00:28:03,430 –> 00:28:07,402
Katherine Hennessey: how things like Gold are connected to the way we just secure data. You

449
00:28:07,426 –> 00:28:10,362
Katherine Hennessey: know, kind of the kind of the old ways that we did things, we’re not

450
00:28:10,386 –> 00:28:13,946
Katherine Hennessey: going to be doing those things without certainly agentic

451
00:28:13,978 –> 00:28:17,818
Katherine Hennessey: AI, but then, but that’s how our cyber world connects to that.

452
00:28:17,954 –> 00:28:21,114
Katherine Hennessey: None of that’s going to happen without what we’ve sort of been building up to

453
00:28:21,202 –> 00:28:24,778
Katherine Hennessey: here at RSA conference. Well said. And I like the connect to

454
00:28:24,834 –> 00:28:28,714
Frank Cilluffo: Golden Dome. Catch our episode with Chairman Mike Rogers

455
00:28:28,842 –> 00:28:32,646
Frank Cilluffo: Unask where he went pretty deep on that. Ali, any thoughts on Magenta? Yeah.

456
00:28:32,678 –> 00:28:36,438
Alison King: And so it’s interesting to see how things continue to evolve.

457
00:28:36,534 –> 00:28:39,846
Alison King: But it always kind of pulls me back into three

458
00:28:39,918 –> 00:28:43,622
Alison King: fundamentals that I look at is like you have to have clean data sets, which

459
00:28:43,726 –> 00:28:47,174
Alison King: is not always an easy thing to do. You have to secure them all and

460
00:28:47,182 –> 00:28:50,790
Alison King: you have to train the users to go back to your workforce point on that.

461
00:28:50,830 –> 00:28:54,806
Alison King: And so I always think of AI under any rubric or any flavor

462
00:28:54,838 –> 00:28:58,802
Alison King: you want to, you know, peanut butter spread across. It is augmented intelligence. And so

463
00:28:58,846 –> 00:29:02,154
Alison King: it certainly is a tool that has to be used responsibly and you have to

464
00:29:02,162 –> 00:29:06,042
Alison King: have ethics attached to it. Yeah, we’re all used to as insider threat. And

465
00:29:06,066 –> 00:29:09,722
Bob Kolasky: this is, this changes the aspect of insider threat. The agents

466
00:29:09,866 –> 00:29:13,770
Bob Kolasky: coming with their threats. And so there were Certainly if you

467
00:29:13,810 –> 00:29:17,194
Bob Kolasky: went and looked for it here, there were certainly people giving talks about the dangers

468
00:29:17,242 –> 00:29:20,602
Bob Kolasky: and the science fiction type dangers of this sort of technology.

469
00:29:20,706 –> 00:29:24,042
Bob Kolasky: And you know, it’s always fun at RSA to see the

470
00:29:24,066 –> 00:29:27,694
Bob Kolasky: optimists versus the pessimists just by the nature of it. It’s fundamentally an

471
00:29:27,702 –> 00:29:31,438
Bob Kolasky: optimistic conference because there’s so much business to have.

472
00:29:31,574 –> 00:29:34,574
Bob Kolasky: But you make money by then being. A pessimist and that’s why you want to

473
00:29:34,582 –> 00:29:38,130
Alison King: move from like zero trust to negative trust to take into accountability.

474
00:29:39,590 –> 00:29:43,198
Frank Cilluffo: Oh, you’re dropping the new sound bite. But, but the truth is,

475
00:29:43,254 –> 00:29:47,214
Frank Cilluffo: is I, I’ve been told forever and I’m accused an optimist

476
00:29:47,262 –> 00:29:51,134
Frank Cilluffo: is a pessimist with experience. I, I actually am optimistic here and I want to

477
00:29:51,142 –> 00:29:55,126
Frank Cilluffo: close with, with all of your thoughts. Since we’re on AI and we’ve

478
00:29:55,158 –> 00:29:58,678
Frank Cilluffo: had a number of discussions. Who benefits? Red or blue?

479
00:29:58,774 –> 00:30:02,438
Frank Cilluffo: Offense, defense, who ultimately is the big.

480
00:30:02,574 –> 00:30:06,118
Frank Cilluffo: And I think clearly we all can recognize that all

481
00:30:06,174 –> 00:30:10,070
Frank Cilluffo: the mapping it against your basic controls and, and,

482
00:30:10,110 –> 00:30:13,990
Frank Cilluffo: and that still is. The majority of hacks are based on

483
00:30:14,110 –> 00:30:17,702
Frank Cilluffo: rudimentary things that people do did not implement

484
00:30:17,766 –> 00:30:21,490
Frank Cilluffo: or implement well enough. So clearly

485
00:30:21,650 –> 00:30:25,330
Frank Cilluffo: to help rise all boats is the case.

486
00:30:25,450 –> 00:30:29,234
Frank Cilluffo: But adversarial AI and using it for red is also a

487
00:30:29,242 –> 00:30:33,122
Frank Cilluffo: case. We’ll start with Katherine on this and then. No, no, it’s so hard to

488
00:30:33,146 –> 00:30:35,682
Katherine Hennessey: say because, I mean, I felt like it was one or the other. I was

489
00:30:35,706 –> 00:30:38,830
Katherine Hennessey: in meetings or briefings or. Depends on the day.

490
00:30:40,090 –> 00:30:43,778
Katherine Hennessey: And we’ve seen a lot of tech that, we’ve seen

491
00:30:43,914 –> 00:30:47,714
Katherine Hennessey: all of our tech that is leveraging AI, but some in what we

492
00:30:47,722 –> 00:30:51,586
Katherine Hennessey: would consider newer, more organic ways, like not just laying

493
00:30:51,618 –> 00:30:55,538
Katherine Hennessey: in AI and just sort of existing methodologies of tools, like tools

494
00:30:55,554 –> 00:30:59,522
Katherine Hennessey: that are built with AI. You know, one area that has come

495
00:30:59,546 –> 00:31:03,522
Katherine Hennessey: up a lot is like automated pen testing. So that’s a really cool example. And

496
00:31:03,546 –> 00:31:06,722
Katherine Hennessey: so you start to get really optimistic. But honestly, then you kind of go to

497
00:31:06,746 –> 00:31:10,722
Katherine Hennessey: different briefings and they’re talking about what the threat landscape looks like. You know, the

498
00:31:10,746 –> 00:31:14,370
Katherine Hennessey: people who really get into it and see it and are really out there

499
00:31:14,410 –> 00:31:17,974
Katherine Hennessey: defending companies and, and it’s getting pretty scary too.

500
00:31:18,142 –> 00:31:21,830
Katherine Hennessey: You know, like you’re both bullish and bearish. Is that so? It’s very hard

501
00:31:21,870 –> 00:31:25,014
Katherine Hennessey: because I feel like maybe if I loaded up my schedule with one versus the

502
00:31:25,022 –> 00:31:28,582
Katherine Hennessey: other, I’d come away with a net answer. But I. They kind of balance each

503
00:31:28,606 –> 00:31:32,374
Katherine Hennessey: other out. You know, we. Almost every national security

504
00:31:32,462 –> 00:31:36,070
Frank Cilluffo: leader I brought in says it benefits the adversary. Almost

505
00:31:36,190 –> 00:31:40,134
Frank Cilluffo: every in part because those same automated ns can be used by

506
00:31:40,142 –> 00:31:43,994
Frank Cilluffo: the bad guy. And almost every commercial leader I brought in says

507
00:31:44,082 –> 00:31:47,994
Frank Cilluffo: actually blue’s got a, this could, this could actually level the playing field.

508
00:31:48,082 –> 00:31:52,042
Matt Hayden: Bullish bearish and why defenders advantage? Because if

509
00:31:52,066 –> 00:31:55,630
Matt Hayden: you put both sets of tools mature on both sides,

510
00:31:55,970 –> 00:31:59,882
Matt Hayden: the advantage had always been to the attacker because they, they could operate right now

511
00:31:59,906 –> 00:32:03,722
Matt Hayden: or an abuse remain. And so then it becomes more of a one

512
00:32:03,746 –> 00:32:07,274
Matt Hayden: on one game of chess as opposed to you having to be everywhere all the

513
00:32:07,282 –> 00:32:11,188
Matt Hayden: time. And so it’s, it’s definitely one where the defender has an increased

514
00:32:11,204 –> 00:32:14,324
Matt Hayden: advantage than they’ve had in the in past. Can I push back on that for

515
00:32:14,332 –> 00:32:17,620
Frank Cilluffo: a second though? Because again this reminds me very much of the old

516
00:32:17,660 –> 00:32:21,604
Frank Cilluffo: counterterrorism environment. The good guys have to be right all the time,

517
00:32:21,692 –> 00:32:25,476
Frank Cilluffo: the bad guys only once. So maybe what we define as

518
00:32:25,548 –> 00:32:29,220
Frank Cilluffo: success. Well, I’d say that right now

519
00:32:29,260 –> 00:32:33,236
Matt Hayden: you’re, you’re saying that you have to define. I was just giving you the bullish

520
00:32:33,268 –> 00:32:37,172
Frank Cilluffo: bearish. Okay, well the answer is, is that you’re, I like

521
00:32:37,196 –> 00:32:40,964
Matt Hayden: that you’re scaling to a point where you are everywhere to take on every attacker

522
00:32:41,012 –> 00:32:44,676
Matt Hayden: in a one on one with these tools deployed. Not

523
00:32:44,708 –> 00:32:48,132
Frank Cilluffo: to be a contrarian But I am on the side

524
00:32:48,156 –> 00:32:51,780
Frank Cilluffo: of the defenders just because when it comes down. Well, when it

525
00:32:51,820 –> 00:32:55,780
Frank Cilluffo: comes down to your crown jewels and what our thresholds

526
00:32:55,820 –> 00:32:59,764
Frank Cilluffo: are for risk, I think that we’re still in a

527
00:32:59,812 –> 00:33:03,694
Frank Cilluffo: good spot but definitely it can go either way.

528
00:33:03,742 –> 00:33:07,374
Frank Cilluffo: So ultimately it’s important for us to continue to align under

529
00:33:07,462 –> 00:33:11,342
Frank Cilluffo: a national strategy. So I’m

530
00:33:11,406 –> 00:33:15,166
Frank Cilluffo: really excited to be having these folks come out even

531
00:33:15,198 –> 00:33:19,182
Frank Cilluffo: before they’ve been confirmed. I think that shows a commitment and it’s an

532
00:33:19,206 –> 00:33:22,542
Frank Cilluffo: interest for them to kind of get ahead of like somewhat of the bureaucracy and

533
00:33:22,566 –> 00:33:26,558
Frank Cilluffo: I know why exists but, but yeah, there’s a little bit of that kind

534
00:33:26,574 –> 00:33:30,382
Frank Cilluffo: of tossed in. And so I think that we’re in a position to be able

535
00:33:30,406 –> 00:33:34,202
Frank Cilluffo: to do more of this operational collaboration which is absolutely necessary

536
00:33:34,226 –> 00:33:37,230
Frank Cilluffo: to so include the AI functions. Any points for the operational

537
00:33:37,890 –> 00:33:41,162
Frank Cilluffo: Bob I’m. Going to stick with bullish. One

538
00:33:41,346 –> 00:33:44,826
Bob Kolasky: government presence out here that we haven’t talked about that. I was happy with

539
00:33:44,898 –> 00:33:48,186
Bob Kolasky: DARPA and they had something called the AI Cyber Challenge for Critical

540
00:33:48,218 –> 00:33:52,202
Bob Kolasky: Infrastructure. And basically what they were pitching is a grand challenge

541
00:33:52,266 –> 00:33:55,770
Bob Kolasky: to use AI to defend operational

542
00:33:55,850 –> 00:33:59,784
Bob Kolasky: technology in critical infrastructure and to eradicate

543
00:33:59,922 –> 00:34:03,852
Bob Kolasky: cyber. You know, I took a look

544
00:34:03,876 –> 00:34:07,564
Bob Kolasky: at it. I can’t evaluate the technologies at this point. I guess they’ve down selected

545
00:34:07,612 –> 00:34:11,372
Bob Kolasky: to seven Technologies, and they’re going to make the three or four winners announced at

546
00:34:11,396 –> 00:34:14,840
Bob Kolasky: DEFCON this year. But it goes to the point of

547
00:34:15,540 –> 00:34:18,956
Bob Kolasky: using this for the cyber poor a little bit, which is something we’re all pretty

548
00:34:18,988 –> 00:34:22,684
Bob Kolasky: interested in. Can we use AI to help protect hospitals and

549
00:34:22,772 –> 00:34:26,734
Bob Kolasky: water facility control systems and things like that? And that’s something that

550
00:34:26,742 –> 00:34:30,574
Bob Kolasky: we’re never going to scale the workforce to do. So for cyber defense to

551
00:34:30,582 –> 00:34:33,690
Bob Kolasky: be successful at that level, can technology

552
00:34:35,270 –> 00:34:39,182
Bob Kolasky: scale cyber defense? And let’s see, last word, parting thoughts.

553
00:34:39,246 –> 00:34:41,690
Frank Cilluffo: From each of you. Bob, we’ll start with you.

554
00:34:43,190 –> 00:34:46,110
Bob Kolasky: I just wanted to mention on Monday, I think a lot of us learned that

555
00:34:46,150 –> 00:34:49,854
Bob Kolasky: Robert Metzger passed away. I’d seen Bob the last couple

556
00:34:49,902 –> 00:34:53,710
Bob Kolasky: years here, and he is somebody who was

557
00:34:54,010 –> 00:34:57,666
Bob Kolasky: one of the giants in cyber law and regulatory law, particularly in the defense

558
00:34:57,698 –> 00:35:01,650
Bob Kolasky: industrial base. Katherine and I had dinner with him a couple years ago. So

559
00:35:01,690 –> 00:35:05,570
Bob Kolasky: just want to end with mentioning how great a man

560
00:35:05,610 –> 00:35:09,602
Bob Kolasky: he was. And that is. It’s the community. Right? Yeah.

561
00:35:09,746 –> 00:35:13,362
Alison King: Looking forward to transitioning completely to east coast

562
00:35:13,426 –> 00:35:16,930
Alison King: time. The jet lag was a little rough, but it was a great

563
00:35:16,970 –> 00:35:20,960
Alison King: conference. And you know, can’t do everything. You know what time

564
00:35:21,000 –> 00:35:24,240
Frank Cilluffo: zone you’re in, Ali, you’re. You’re around the world. Yeah. You can’t do. Can’t do

565
00:35:24,280 –> 00:35:27,984
Alison King: everything, but certainly it’s super valuable. So I appreciate the

566
00:35:27,992 –> 00:35:31,712
Alison King: opportunity to be here again. Thank you. Looking forward to getting back and

567
00:35:31,736 –> 00:35:35,712
Matt Hayden: having. Is just continuing the conversation because sometimes we get

568
00:35:35,736 –> 00:35:39,680
Matt Hayden: this sandbagging of, I’m gonna save my good conversations for rsa. And then so

569
00:35:39,720 –> 00:35:42,976
Matt Hayden: then you get it out, you’re like, okay, now we can have that, that expanded

570
00:35:43,008 –> 00:35:46,748
Matt Hayden: conversation and build on sort of the fun

571
00:35:46,804 –> 00:35:50,572
Matt Hayden: topics that lead into the DEFCON at the other end. Katherine, bring us home.

572
00:35:50,676 –> 00:35:54,652
Frank Cilluffo: End of rsa. Yeah. Okay. I would also say along the lines of just

573
00:35:54,676 –> 00:35:58,012
Katherine Hennessey: noting that a loss in the community is Amit Iran, who is known to us

574
00:35:58,036 –> 00:36:01,964
Katherine Hennessey: all. And I mean, I never worked for his companies, but man, I

575
00:36:01,972 –> 00:36:05,820
Katherine Hennessey: was so respectful of what he built and his legacy. Being

576
00:36:05,860 –> 00:36:09,844
Katherine Hennessey: both a government person and then moving on to the tech side. Yep, absolutely.

577
00:36:10,012 –> 00:36:13,460
Katherine Hennessey: And just really a foundational pillar in the community, I would

578
00:36:13,500 –> 00:36:17,268
Katherine Hennessey: say. But I guess on the positive side, I noted and

579
00:36:17,324 –> 00:36:20,708
Katherine Hennessey: perhaps because I met a few through you, but I just felt a really good

580
00:36:20,764 –> 00:36:24,532
Katherine Hennessey: presence of our European and international allied partners here.

581
00:36:24,636 –> 00:36:27,572
Katherine Hennessey: And I know they’re always here, but. And maybe they had a little bit more

582
00:36:27,596 –> 00:36:31,332
Katherine Hennessey: attention because there were a few less US Government people able to come

583
00:36:31,356 –> 00:36:35,252
Katherine Hennessey: out. But man, I thought that it was. We had a lot

584
00:36:35,276 –> 00:36:38,292
Katherine Hennessey: of really great interactions with them. They were included. I went to some of their

585
00:36:38,316 –> 00:36:41,926
Katherine Hennessey: things and I just think there’s probably more interest

586
00:36:41,998 –> 00:36:45,894
Katherine Hennessey: in intersecting with innovation here and the security

587
00:36:45,982 –> 00:36:49,110
Katherine Hennessey: community that we can build on. So thought that was exciting and it does take

588
00:36:49,150 –> 00:36:52,470
Frank Cilluffo: networks to defeat networks and they have to be in that same

589
00:36:52,510 –> 00:36:56,278
Frank Cilluffo: foxhole. And thank you both for recognizing because that is what it’s about.

590
00:36:56,334 –> 00:36:59,878
Frank Cilluffo: It’s about the people in the end. And Amit was a dear, dear friend

591
00:36:59,934 –> 00:37:03,330
Frank Cilluffo: and I want to thank all of you for

592
00:37:04,270 –> 00:37:07,686
Frank Cilluffo: spending some time with us. I know this is at the end of a very

593
00:37:07,758 –> 00:37:11,200
Frank Cilluffo: busy week. Wish everyone a safe trip back and thank you.

594
00:37:12,220 –> 00:37:16,052
Frank Cilluffo: Thank you for joining us for this episode of Cyberfocus. If you liked what you

595
00:37:16,076 –> 00:37:19,988
Frank Cilluffo: heard, please consider subscribing your ratings and reviews. Help us reach

596
00:37:20,044 –> 00:37:23,860
Frank Cilluffo: more listeners. Drop us a line if you have any ideas in terms of

597
00:37:23,900 –> 00:37:27,796
Frank Cilluffo: topics, themes. Or individuals you’d like for us to host. Until

598
00:37:27,868 –> 00:37:31,780
Frank Cilluffo: next time, stay safe, stay informed, and stay curious.